Boom ... was that an S30 that just passed you?

[ratz]

It's been a long time coming since Jim hinted in an email that this was coming 2 years ago. I'm excited.

http://cruzbike.com/silvio.html

• Gone is the front shock
• Gone is the associated weight
• Chain-stay is Vendetta style super stiff aluminum
• Rear suspension still there to smooth out the road

This should be a big win for people that want to be more upright and go faster.

I have no official info but this might explain the upgrades Robert was hinting at early in the week. If my guess turns out to be true this would be a performance upgrade that purchasers of the most recent S30's could do. But it would certainly be limited to the latest white S30's. Rake, Angle and Trail numbers look incompatible with the Black Series; but that is to be expected.

It just got harder and easier to pick between the V20 and S30 at the same time.

I'm sure more details are coming.

@LarryOz always had better power numbers on his Silvio; so the question is will he be testing a new S30 during his 1 week vacation. I think we shall have to encourage him....

Maybe if @JOSEPHWEISSERT road one of these they would not be so afraid of him on his group ride.

Here's hoping there is at least 1 or 2 to test ride at the Portland retreat.

Now we just need an addon VeloShell to get @Eric Winn geeked out again.

 

[LarryOz]

@LarryOz always had better power numbers on his Silvio; so the question is will he be testing a new S30 during his 1 week vacation. I think we shall have to encourage him....

True - You can make more power sitting up straigher, but everything is a trade off - I remember when I last road my Silvio before I traded it for the V2.2. I did a 361 watts- 5 minute segment and averaged 25.4! I was really disappointed that I could not even manage but 258watts on the Vendetta only days later, but the Vendetta was still faster, at 25.6mph.

Cruzbike has my address - all they have to do is ship me one and I'll add it to the testing scenario!

Maybe if @JOSEPHWEISSERT road one of these they would not be so afraid of him on his group ride.

Here's the answer you where looking for Joe - Go for it!

 

[Rick Youngblood]

I like the idea of no front shock on the Silvio. Always thought it to take a big hit take advantage of it, but I would rather avoid those type of hits altogether.

However, just to throw more controversy in to a highly controversial subject - just go to BROL to see what I'm talking about. I personally feel I climb better on my Vendetta than my Silvio 2.1. I don't have a power meter to test my personal theory. This isn't to say the Silvio 2.1 is not a good climber, it's not, it's a great climber and out climbs any recumbent or Df I've ever owned or ridden (not including the Vendetta). I can feel it in my stamina and how much easier it was to get to the top of the hill...but I do currently have my Vendetta seat angle a little steeper than stock. I think and believe the problem with testing whether or not a more inclined seat angle takes less power.energy to climb is dependent on personal hip.leg angle. I would love to see some scientific studies done in this area, but you need more test subjects. What might be a better angle for Larry might not be right for me. On the other hand, the new Silvio or rather Silvetta just may be an ultimate climbing machine because if it's true, what I'm seeing is the newer Silvio 'Evolve' 30.1 to be equipped with the vendetta complete front end. Stiff and light. I really like this, and love that Cruzbike continues evolve, they listen to their customers to provide great products. I rate this change five happy faces -> .

 

[Jeremy S]

Looks cool. This would be my new bike if my 2.0 blew up.

I would guess that the new front end could not go on either 2.0 or a previous S30 without changing the fork angle and affecting handling (the frame is probably welded at a different angle and the fork height has clearly changed). I guess we'll find out.

 

[MrSteve]

Cool.
Now, if the wheelbase were extended a few extra inches, the Silvio would ride smoother, accomodate very tall people and climb better.

 

[3WHELZ]

Now if the TTRIKE attachment would become available, I could pass my Silvio 1.0 to the spouse and have an excuse to purchase a new S30!

 

[LMT]

Cool.
Now, if the wheelbase were extended a few extra inches, the Silvio would ride smoother, accomodate very tall people and climb better.

Then it would be a Vendetta.


Dunno if I'm convinced TBH.

People say that a higher seat angle helps climbing, which it does up to a point at the expense of aerodynamics. But with this bike the seat angle is 28 degrees which ime is not a whole lot different than the 20 degrees of the V20, having run my Metabike when I had it at 28 degrees, I thought Cruzbikes climbed quickly because of the MBB?

The only tangible difference I can see with this compared to a V20 is the rear shock. I can't go touring on this bike per se because AFAIK you cannot fit a rack, and any bags I do buy for the Silvio I can put on a V20 so if this is being billed as a touring/commuting bike then so is the V20?

The wheelbase is shorter by 4 inches, but ime this would not make packing the bike for transport any easier, my V20 loads up just fine in the back of van, or car with the wheels off. Discounting the rear shock why would I buy this bike over a V20?

Just my 2p's worth, just felt, maybe that the Q559 series could have been updated to reflect what a fast touring/commuting bike should be. A lighter more robust frame that does not fold, better wheel spec and to incorporate some of the front end of the V20 and S30 rather than the bike still looking a bit like the conversion kits of back in the day. With the add on of having a mid to high groupset that would incorporate an actual chainset.

I think the Q100 (as is billed) should be the folder/utility/hack bike of the Cruzbike stable.

 

[super slim]

Then it would be a Vendetta.


Dunno if I'm convinced TBH.

People say that a higher seat angle helps climbing, which it does up to a point at the expense of aerodynamics. But with this bike the seat angle is 28 degrees which ime is not a whole lot different than the 20 degrees of the V20, having run my Metabike when I had it at 28 degrees, I thought Cruzbikes climbed quickly because of the MBB?

The only tangible difference I can see with this compared to a V20 is the rear shock. I can't go touring on this bike per se because AFAIK you cannot fit a rack, and any bags I do buy for the Silvio I can put on a V20 so if this is being billed as a touring/commuting bike then so is the V20?

The wheelbase is shorter by 4 inches, but ime this would not make packing the bike for transport any easier, my V20 loads up just fine in the back of van, or car with the wheels off. Discounting the rear shock why would I buy this bike over a V20?

Just my 2p's worth, just felt, maybe that the Q559 series could have been updated to reflect what a fast touring/commuting bike should be. A lighter more robust frame that does not fold, better wheel spec and to incorporate some of the front end of the V20 and S30 rather than the bike still looking a bit like the conversion kits of back in the day. With the add on of having a mid to high groupset that would incorporate an actual chainset.

I think the Q100 (as is billed) should be the folder/utility/hack bike of the Cruzbike stable.

A Q100 that could handle 700c wheels with 35 mm tyres, with a Silvio front end as EmelJay did, would be great, as it already has good rear suspension, a foldable rear strong rack, adjustable seat position, and rear back angle, that if it could go from 27 degrees to 60 degree would be even better.

 

[Robert Holler]

There are only two people in the world who have ridden the new S30, Jonathan Garcia and myself at last weekends Pendleton Oregon CROC ride.

The old S30 was a great machine. For those who wanted a great dual suspended bike it is a coveted bike for sure and is no slouch. This, however, is a new animal. Ill have a more full report at some point soon but Ill preface it with this: Oh my.

I need to be perfectly clear here though - this is a NEW bike in many ways. The old suspended S30 will always be that - this new front end cannot be swapped onto the old S30 frame - the geometry is not the same.

 

[super slim]

What is the weight saving of no front suspension, and Vendetta front stay, of medium, or large?

 

[LMT]

There are only two people in the world who have ridden the new S30, Jonathan Garcia and myself at last weekends Pendleton Oregon CROC ride.

The old S30 was a great machine. For those who wanted a great dual suspended bike it is a coveted bike for sure and is no slouch. This, however, is a new animal. Ill have a more full report at some point soon but Ill preface it with this: Oh my.

I need to be perfectly clear here though - this is a NEW bike in many ways. The old suspended S30 will always be that - this new front end cannot be swapped onto the old S30 frame - the geometry is not the same.

I've no doubt that the new S30 is a good bike, and it looks to be more of a bike that can be thrown around it a bit more through the corners due to it's slightly shorter wheelbase which would make it easier to filter in traffic. But is it not eating into the realm of where the V20 sits in terms of performance?

 

[ratz]

I've no doubt that the new S30 is a good bike, and it looks to be more of a bike that can be thrown around it a bit more through the corners due to it's slightly shorter wheelbase which would make it easier to filter in traffic. But is it not eating into the realm of where the V20 sits in terms of performance?

I can't wait to read Robert's ride test results. I know this from having both bikes albeit the older ones. The v20 really is the ride alone bike. I prefer the Silvio at a bike rally because after a v20 it feels like you are sittng bolt upright And it is easier to ride with other people. But the guys I ride with at those events are usually just a tad faster than is lazy comfort on the Silvio. I have to work hard to keep them honest and I dump a lot of power into that shock and it really is heavy.

I have to believe that this change works to level that playing field and make this the best Cruzbike for group riding today. ......28 degrees does seem that much higher but it feels like a lot to me.

Throw a Rick seat mod on it and you have now made all those ppl that miss the Silvio 1.5 very happy. I will bet my dollars that This will sell a lot of Silvios.

This should re-establish the Silvio as the road bike and the vendetta as the TT bike.

As for a touring bike, sell more Silvios and the q-series can continue to evolve got believe that's where the next road of enhancements and invations come.

When I talk to ppl as of late it was do you want a V20 or a Q. Now it is going to be do you want a S30 or a Q.

Again all speculation, hopefully educated, but guess work.

 

[super slim]

Having an ancient Silvio V1.0 with a 45 degree seat back, where at least 60% of your weight is on the seat bottom, then the loss of the front air suspension, due to a worn O ring, was dramatic on the very rough South Australian bike tracks!!!
I have a high pressure in the front air bag, so it only reacts when I hit a tree root speed bump, pot hole, a large depression or cattle grid in the road that gets me airborne at 70 kph and I land perfectly with the front shocker fully depressing to absorb the impact. Due to the confidence in the Silvio handling on rough bitumen roads, I descend 20 kph faster than DF bikes, and 10 kph faster than Tandems with fit 25 yr old males!!! Its the bike NOT me!

When I rode Jond's Vendetta for 800m, I thought that most of my weight was on the 21 deg. seat back, the steering was very precise, but it was on a dead smooth Hot mix road!

I have not ridden a Silvio at 28 degrees seat back, but I THINK that for high speed descending partly loaded (8 kgs), that a front suspended Silvio S30 with 28 mm tyres would still be better than a S30, unless it could handle 32 mm tyres

 

[Rick Youngblood]

I'm sure we will all have different opinions and perspectives on the optimal recumbent bike. And I'm reasonably sure that it will have an efficient Cruzbike drive train.

I understand what Bob is saying about the 28 degree Silvio being more of a socially effective ride. I've read Maria making the same comment when out with friends riding DF bikes, you feel more tuned into the conversations, with more eye level contact. However for me, , I want to be on the fastest bike just in case there is a challenge awaiting. I'm sure Joey Wisseguy will agree. So I choose the Vendetta every time, it doesn't bother me that other folks have look down at me. I say this mostly in fun. However, another aspect to the shorter wheelbase of the Silvio is its taller than the Vendetta with more vertical stance, or bigger verticle footprint, and it will be the fastest Silvio to date...I caught that in Roberts hint.

It should be interesting to hear about the comparisons between this new Silvio 30 Evol, older S30, and S2.0 models, and about its climbing abilities. I vote send one to Larry . Again I like the change, but I'm wondering if folks will now have a harder time choosing between Vendetta and Silvio. I know I would if I was coming into the game now.

 

[super slim]

I'm sure we will all have different opinions and perspectives on the optimal recumbent bike. And I'm reasonably sure that it will have an efficient Cruzbike drive train.

I understand what Bob is saying about the 28 degree Silvio being more of a socially effective ride. I've read Maria making the same comment when out with friends riding DF bikes, you feel more tuned into the conversations, with more eye level contact. However for me, , I want to be on the fastest bike just in case there is a challenge awaiting. I'm sure Joey Wisseguy will agree. So I choose the Vendetta every time, it doesn't bother me that other folks have look down at me. I say this mostly in fun. However, another aspect to the shorter wheelbase of the Silvio is its taller than the Vendetta with more vertical stance, or bigger verticle footprint, and it will be the fastest Silvio to date...I caught that in Roberts hint.

It should be interesting to hear about the comparisons between this new Silvio 30 Evol, older S30, and S2.0 models. I vote send one to Larry . Again I like the change, but I'm wondering if folks will now have a harder time choosing between Vendetta and Silvio. I know I would if I was coming into the game now.

Rick I think a suspended S30 with 28 deg seat, and the new unsuspended S30 with a 33 deg seat back (I think this is the angle you ended up with your seat mods?) should be sent to Larry for testing.
I will volunteer to help, if someone pays for my Air ticket!!!
I would bring my Silvio V1.0 for comparison!!!

 

[MrSteve]

Only a few of us have climbed the same hills on the same MBB platform but with radically different seat angles.
This means that there's no meaningful data on how much better, if any, one seat angle performs Vs. another.

My me-powered Sofrider climbs hills much better with the 18-degree seat and is, of course, much more aerodynamic/faster;
the 30-degree seat is more agile and is cooler to ride in the Summer heat.

Mr. Youngblood's experience is the same as mine:
My Sofrider -it has a suspended front end- is a very capable climber and has never been beaten uphill by any local RWD recumbent,
but I betcha that it is bested by Rick's lighter Silvio 2.1.
And, like Rick's Vendetta 2.o, my V. 1.5 crushes the Sofrider uphill.

Now, a token nod to the original post!
Losing the front air spring and its weight while lowering the price is awesome.
Kudos!

But the Vendetta, with no power lost to suspension and its longer wheelbase, is still the King of the Mountain.
Long may it reign.

 

[Rick Youngblood]

Losing the front air spring and its weight while lowering the price is awesome.
Kudos!

Hey, now that is awesome, I didn't notice that, $2400 that's a relative steel for a new frame set.

 

[scabinetguy]

I've been ridding the Silvetta for quite some time now, it's light and fast. It may be the best of both worlds and would appeal to a lot of riders because of the higher seat angle. I prefer the Silvetta for climbing but for speed the Vendetta is still king. Honestly,if I had to choose only one, it would probably be the Silvetta, only because I'm not a racer.

 

[t.c103]

A Silvetta was expected and it looks really nice. Like my Vendetta a lot but if I was buying today I probably get the new S30. Probably the almost perfect bike for brevets....
So next dreambike is a V20 with rear suspension and a adjustable seatangle

 

[Rick Youngblood]

So next dreambike is a V20 with rear suspension and a adjustable seatangle

That sounds a lot like my Vendetta !