Getting Off the Fence

Discussion in 'Race Series (V1.x, V2.x, V20)' started by GetBent, Aug 16, 2016.

  1. GetBent

    GetBent Member

    What fits in a Moose Bag:

    IMG_0153.JPG.jpg

    Top: Cash and ID, bicycle tool, mini-mulitool, first aid, two protein bars, two energy gels

    Bottom: Mini pump, inflator w spare cartridge, tube patches, two tubes, tire irons, zip ties, Di2 cable tool

    If I leave out one protein bar, I can fit my cell phone (no case) placed in a zip lock bag - probably more important than all the other stuff combined.

    I found the Moose bag to be well designed and well constructed.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018
    super slim likes this.
  2. super slim

    super slim Zen MBB Master

    Thats more than I fit into my Terracycle Fastback bag!!!!
     
  3. GetBent

    GetBent Member

    Finally, another break in the weather, and with the Moose Pack fully loaded with repair stuff and a water bottle mounted, I felt like I could venture out for a 24 mile ride yesterday. Based on that ride, last night I moved the handles bars aft one inch (the top of my legs sometimes lightly touched the bottom of the handle bars), the cranks 0.5 in aft (I felt that I had too much extension), and doubled the thickness of padding of the headrest.

    I am getting a little better with my balance when using the headrest. The route that I chose had a section in the middle of about 8 miles of flat with little traffic. I was able to use the headrest on the flat stretch most of the time, other wise I was tilted forward. To mount the water bottle, I pilfered a Specialized bottle mount from the Tarmac with a Camelback bottle, mounted on the mounts provided by Cruzbike. This is a usable, but temporary solution. The inside of my legs rubbed on the bottle the entire ride. This is OK for now, riding with long pants in inclement weather, but will not work with shorts. I guess this will give me a good excuse to buy one of those very cool carbon cases.

    I am concerned about all the crap the front wheel throws up onto the FD and the forward "B" Junction box. I am considering getting a small fender to mount on the chain stay bridge to prevent that during inclement weather rides.

    IMG_0156.JPG.jpg

    I finally figured out what that velcro on the top of the head rest cover is for - holding the garage door opener, of course. Those smart people at Cruzbike think of everything :)
     
  4. GetBent

    GetBent Member

    The weather held, so I went out and did the same route. The changes helped. The headrest mod was huge. I was able to use the headrest about 80% of the ride. An added advantage of the extra padding is that when I hit rough patches in the road, I no longer feel like I need to wear a mouth guard. The water bottle has got to go. I am a little sore from it from yesterday. I am happy with how easy it has been to transition to the Vendetta, but I still do not feel like I am in full control. I push up hill, but not on flats, and I brake on the downhills. I have no idea how fast I am going. I have yet to swipe the computer from the Tarmac, because I know if I do, the next time I do a ride, I will try to go faster than the first time. I need to focus on finesse, balance, and smoothness.
     
  5. GetBent

    GetBent Member

    Can somebody tell me what the BLEEP! BLEEP! happened?

    I am still a little shaken - I walked the bike back the last 3 miles today.

    Splat! Face plant! Road kill! Yep, you get the picture. I went down hard. I wound up lying on the right side of the lane, and the bike continued forward and left, stopping just short of the center line. It must have been a spectacular crash, as it drew a bit of a crowd. Fortunately, I had multiple layers of cloths on, so no road rash.

    I was pushing up a hill. The rear wheel broke loose and slid out from under me to the right. I felt it happen, and immediately tried to correct by stearing in to the slide, but I am pretty sure I hit the ground before my arms moved much at all, if any. I estimate it took about a second from the time I felt the rear tire slide to the right and the time I hit the ground. So why would that happen? I assumed I had a blow out of the rear tire, but no, it was good. Then I went back from the crash site assuming I had hit a wet man hole cover, oil or maybe loose sand or gravel. Nothing. Then I inspected the rear of the bike again. Maybe the bearings froze or something jammed in the brakes. No, nothing. Everything was fine. Maybe a stick or some kind of debris kicked up, caught in the spokes, and jammed against the chain stays. No. Nothing at all. A total mystery. After shaking it off, I was getting back on the bike, and noticed the front wheel was flat. Not low, totally and completely dead. (There was a 1/4 inch slit in the tube, no damage at all to the tire.) So my conclusion is that a front wheel blow out caused my rear wheel to slide out to the right, almost instantaneously dumping me. But why? My more rational side attributes this to inexperience, an amateur with more bicycle than skill.

    This accident has me spooked. I have had front wheel blow outs going down hill with both the Tarmac and the Actionbent. I stayed upright through all of them, moving at much higher speeds. My preferred route out of town involves multiple hills. To make up time lost going up, I blast down the back sides, typically hitting 30-45 mph, depending on the hill and how aggressive I am feeling. What is gnawing at me is the possibility that this is a quirk of the design. That it will happen any time the front wheel goes flat. I got dumped due to a front wheel blow out going relatively slowly up hill. What happens to me if I have a front wheel blow out blasting down hill? The same?

    I suspect that what happened was that the blow out caused the bike to slow down, causing the rear wheel to unload. If the front wheel was not straight, this could have caused the rear wheel to break free and slide to the right side. But this does not make total sense, as going up hill caused the weight to be biased towards the rear wheel. Nor does it explain why I was able to maintain control riding the Tarmac and the Actionbent under the same situation, except faster and down hill, with the weight biased towards the front.

    I did a lot of checking around before getting a Vendetta. The only negatives were relatively minor a) difficult to start from a stop (I found that to be easy) b) difficult remove/replace the front wheel (I agree!). Absolutely nothing about people crashing and burning due to front wheel blow outs. Probably it is just me. But I am still spooked, and it will probably be a long time before I will have the confidence to make use of the performance that the Vendetta offers.
     
    super slim likes this.
  6. bazzawill

    bazzawill Well-Known Member

    Sounds like a good reason to go tubeless to me. But in all honesty I never have had a blow out and I ran tubes for some time before I saw the tubeless light. And I have never slid out the rear end (something I used to do every winter on my DF, apparently wet roads are slippery). I feel the V has more weight over the rear wheel to prevent rear wheel slippage, I have felt it kick once or twice but always got it under control. That being said what happened to you sounds frightening. Glad you are ok.
     
  7. ak-tux

    ak-tux Guru

    I'am trying to understand the incident.

    Do you mean the rear wheel literally came off from the and the rear dropouts touched the ground? Did the skewers break?
     
  8. Bill K

    Bill K Well-Known Member

    +1 on tubeless.
    If it happened really, really quickly, maybe it was the front wheel sliding out.
    I've had pinch flats on the front. They suck. If you are pedaling hard when it happens, metal rim on tarmac + FWD is like riding on ice. Boom.

    If your rims are not tubeless ready, get a good beefy commuter tire for the front. That should help with the fear of this reoccurring on the next ride.
    I tried a set of thin race tires a while back. Got six flats in two weeks before I learned my lesson and got rid of them. It all depends on the roads you ride on.
    Oh, and +1 on not getting road rash!
     
    MrSteve likes this.
  9. MrSteve

    MrSteve Zen MBB Master

    The front tire deflated and this, combined with the effort of pushing your bike uphill, caused the accident.
    The rear wheel is fine.
    The facts are what they are and your conclusions are based on what you felt, not on the facts.

    Check your front wheel for sharp bits, check the tire liner, the rim, the spoke ends and nipples and the new front tire
    before you put things back together.

    Hey, you're fine!
    Take it easy for a while until you're ready... no hurry.
     
  10. Gary123

    Gary123 Guru

    Front blowouts are my biggest concern on my vendetta after having the same experience u did. I went down instantly and walked home. Now I run thicker tires and tubes and hope with more riding experience I can handle the situation. You are not alone. I think a slow deflation is ok but I do fear a blowout.
     
  11. GetBent

    GetBent Member

    No. The rear tire was fine, as are all components at the rear of the bike. For some reason, the rear tire broke loose from the pavement and slid to the right, dumping me almost instantaneously. I suspect that the front blow out caused a rapid slow down which unloaded the rear wheel and allowed it to break free of the pavement and slide to the right. What spooks me is how fast it happened, and that I have had front wheel blow outs on other bikes and stayed upright. Probably just my inexperience with the Vendetta, but in the back of my mind, I wonder if this will always happen when the front tire goes flat. Not a comforting thought when blasting down hill.

    Off to the local bike shop to get the biggest, baddest tires they have in stock.
     
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  12. ak-tux

    ak-tux Guru

    Looks like the front wheel blowout cursed the bike to pull a partial stoppie, and the rear wheel lost traction. It's, after all, a front wheel drive and it puts a lot of stress on the front wheel. Your front wheel should be as bullet proof as you can make it. Not just the tyres but the rim, spokes and hub.

    I use 700x28mm schwalbe marathron HS420 at the front of my DIY recumbent, a little heavy but I want reliability.
     
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  13. MrSteve

    MrSteve Zen MBB Master

    The only time a front tire went flat on the Sofrider, when pushing hard uphill:
    The tire deflated quickly and smoothly when the tube was pierced by a brown flake of a discarded, broken beer bottle.
    Suddenly, it was much more difficult to pedal!
    Shifted down, looked for debris in the brake... until I finally noticed how incredibly flat the tire was.
    The Sofrider is pretty dang stable, for me, on flat tires.

    The only time a front tire went flat on the Vendetta, when pushing hard at top speed on a flat road:
    The tube inside the tire pinched flat on a new pothole I saw too late to miss.
    Shifted down and I gently pedaled to a dry, soft-looking patch of grass and replaced the tube.
    Again, for me, the Vendetta is pretty dang stable on flat tires.

    Practice makes everyone better at what they practice on and your experience will vary.
     
  14. cpml123

    cpml123 Member

    Any opinion on Schwalbe Durano vs Marathon HS420 or Gatorskin? I have 32mm size.
     
  15. Gary123

    Gary123 Guru

    M

    Had the same pothole experience except I eased up on the pedals to check for a flat and was tossed like a rookie bull rider. I think vendetta is pretty "unstable" with a flat. Would like to hear from others. Still riding an hoping with more experience results will not be the same but rookie riders should be warned.
     
  16. trplay

    trplay Zen MBB Master

    Up until today I have had a total of three flats on the Vendetta. One of those might have been on the Silvio I just can't remember. One was a tube two were tubeless . The rear tube flat was uneventful. Slowed down changed the tube. One tubeless front flat saw a large cut in the tire where latex would not patch the tire. I stopped rotated the tire for maximum effect while trying to use finger to help stop the air flow. This worked although I did have to pump more air into the tire. Limped home with a low but adequate tire pressure. The other front tubeless flat occured descending Wolf Creek Pass at a confirmed 45 mph. Hit a brick in the narrow bike lane and incurred an immediate blowout. Slowed down and stopped unevred but ok. Turns out I had forgotten to put sealant in this new tire and had been riding it with just air. I have often wondered if sealant would have made a difference. Since this time I have had more self sealing leaks than I can count. You hear the leak and even get a little spray but it doesn't even warrant a stop to check it out. Just ride home and pump the tire up before the next ride.
     
    MrSteve likes this.
  17. Gary123

    Gary123 Guru

    Front blowouts are my concern not slow leaks. Tubeless' spray alert could be very helpful. Your brick incident on any bike would be scary. I know several on this forum had the same loss of control with a front flat that I did. Impressed that u controlled a blowout at 45.
     
  18. trplay

    trplay Zen MBB Master

    I believe without the sealant the front spray flat would have been another blowout. Over the years I know of many, many DF riders who crashed due to front tire blowouts. Often times resulting in broken collarbones. This is a real serious concern for all bike riders. I realize this is a hard sale to someone who just hit the tarmac but I do not think we MBB riders are at any higher risk level than the rest of the two wheelers.
     
    MrSteve likes this.
  19. 3WHELZ

    3WHELZ Well-Known Member

    Add me to that list. I was 65 miles into a Century going 28 mph. Fortunately, I only broke my clavicle. My bike was launched nearly 25 feet away from me despite being clipped in to SpeedPlay pedals. I started riding a trike while recovering, and as they say the rest is history.
     
  20. bret

    bret Active Member

    If you haven't bought yet - the baddest tires may be Schwalbe Marathon Plus. They have videos showing people riding over piles of tacks and glass. But those are hard rolling tires.

    The Schwalbe Marathon (Greenguard) roll very well and have less of an anti-puncture layer, but still have one. Just FYI.
     
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