Just received my new T50 and needing some advice/help

Vicki C.

T50 Trailblazer and Silvio newbie
I am not a bike mechanic. I have never even removed and replaced my chain and usually rely on friends or local bike shops for mechanical work. For that reason I ordered a complete because the assembly sounded doable, and also ordered some recommended accessories. I am having some few issues and hope for some advice.

The first issue was the packing in the box. I found small parts, including the attachment for the derailleur, loose in a small bag in the large box. Same for that clamp for the cables. The accessories were in a separate small box and that helped. Seemingly it was all there and the box was very study with lots of foam and packing bubbles. Better packing of small parts and a packing list and printed assembly sheet would have been nice.

I did not cut the steerer tube. I did have trouble getting it installed and had to loosen a couple of screws/bolts. In the process some of the metal and plastic spacer-looking things (remember, not a mechanic) were loose. I think I finally got it all locked down but not sure. This generated the first email to Cruzbike, not yet answered. Now I am concerned about missing parts, but since most people whose posts I have read seem to be building up from scratch I am not sure.

The no parts list issue is real, as is not having an assembly diagram. Since the T50 being built up in the video clearly is not the same as my basic complete, some of the included parts do not look the same. Foam grips, one with a slit in it, and no end caps. The seat is a mess, threads hanging and does not fit the seat (lots of unpadded real estate). Though I was careful I still did not get the velcro strips exact. The covering is awful and the open-cell foam seems inadequate. I find it uncomfortable compared to other Cruzbikes I have seen and ridden. I expected better than this. I knew that if I liked the bike I would probably upgrade the wheels and tires and perhaps the gearing, but I didn't expect cost-cutting in things like the seat and grips and don't recall photos that looked like what I received.

I also have that clamp that appears to be a cable guide and have no idea what to do with it as there are no instructions. Maybe it is already installed on the complete. I did use the shorter steerer tube, as I said, without cutting it. I could see no way to cut it without cutting off some important part. A cutting diagram would have been helpful. As it turns out, I probably would not want it shorter or my knees might hit the handlebars anyway, but it is unsettling to think I may be assembling this bicycle incorrectly. I did notice that my handlebar twisted the first time I rode the bike. Obviously I need to get that handled.

I, too, ordered accessories with the bike, as I assumed that they would be good quality and fit and not create the hassle of knowing whether they would work with this bike.

1. The Cruzbike water bottle cage came with one bolt attached with a nut and another bolt in a small bag with no nut. I could not find one to fit. I will not be able to use it until I find or get from Cruzbike another that works.
2. The recommended mounting stub did not have any means of attaching itself to the bike. Useless unless I get a bolt or whatever but I don't know what to look for. Someone in another thread mentioned a bolt and nut. I did not find those in the packaging.
3. I also ordered the recommended mirror. I have it installed because I will not ride without one, but it seems flimsy and I could not seem to tighten the grip on the ball sufficiently to avoid movement. It was not an inexpensive mirror and I hope it will not keep slipping. The mirror's mount on the handlebar seems to work adequately. I did not want to install it in the bar end.
4. Lastly, the recommended Axiom rack. I cannot see how in the world this rack will work on this bike. I did not order the one that is being installed in the video. I cannot see a way to install it that will not interfere with the brake cables and the struts appear to be much too wide, although they would probably clamp in. It also seems too long and would be difficult to level. I did not even unpack all the bolts and whatnot because I believe I prefer to return it for a refund. Maybe I am wrong about this, but need some guidance. I know this is a versatile rack, but it is also not the one designed for disk brakes, which come with the T50 complete. I can't find an installation video or diagram but continue to look. Has anyone mounted this and can I see how you did so?

I think mostly I am disappointed that I cannot reach Cruzbike customer support by phone and my calls and emails have not yet been responded to. Maybe they have many many questions like mine and are getting around to them, but maybe something posted on the Facebook page or a blanket email at least acknowledging receipt of the contact would be nice. (Speaking of which, I also did not get a shipping notice and was very happy that I was home when the bike was delivered, as it was left on my porch.) I have ridden a borrowed Quest before and really want to learn to ride this bike and use it for local commuting and trail riding and just general coolness. I have believed in Cruzbike and hope that I get a response soon to my concerns. I will continue to monitor this forum for additional advice. I am fortunate, perhaps, that locally we have a Cruzbike dealer, but I don't know that getting him involved with these issues will serve any purpose and my goal is not to aggravate but to get some help so I can get back to remembering how to ride a Cruzbike.
 

DavidJL

Well-Known Member
The small black clamp is a cable stop for the front derailleur. As far as mirrors go, I like to use a Mirrycle mounted to the bar end. It makes a good solid mount. I resisted cutting down the steering tube on the fork, because I might want that extra length later. I found the seat cushion adequate, but not as good as what came on my QX100. Sticky back Velcro strips are available. There was nothing for the light mounting tab up front, but I used some plastic spacers I had to mount my Bontrager headlight. Regarding the mast height, 13 inches from the top of the head tube seems to be good, and the shorter mast on an uncut steering tube gives this height.

It would be nice to have an assembly sheet. I recall one time it took almost three hours to assemble an entertainment center, and this was with no missteps. I hope you can get this straightened out, because this bike is a good way to learn to ride Cruzbikes.
 

ratz

Wielder of the Rubber Mallet
Just a quick note with regard to support. There are times of the year when it can get slow to get an answer. The shipping of the T50 was unfortunately timed right after RAAM. Having been on the RAAM squad I can tell you honestly that the race wiped all of us out. The team format moves so fast it's exhausting. IMHO We all completely underestimated what that was going to mean for both riders and crew. I'm still playing catch up in real life (don't work for CB) so I get see the effect. Example there is a T50 in my garage in a box; if I touch it before September it will be a total miracle. The veterans around here can tell you what that must mean given my proclivity for cool builds and photos...

So By my count, They had 152 backers bikes to box and ship and 3 people to do it; robert, maria, and lucia the later two were on RAAM racing and media. I suspect shipping week was as exhausting as the race and came on the heels of the race; (days after), I also know due to happenstance it was more like two people, take my word but I can't elaborate. Perhaps they should have pushed shipping back a week, but there's that drive to get bikes into people's hands that I can understand. Eyes are bigger than the stomach and all of that.

As for the quality issues; small company, and managing Taiwan is a challenge even for big bike companies; you ask for x and you get X-skewed. It's the way of things and it's as frustrating for them as it is for the customer. Each bike model especially the Silvio has had it's growing pains with the new models. We the longtime customers put up with it because (1) we want to ride these bikes, (2) Cruzbike always makes it right, (3) we'd rather not wait an extra year to have it perfect.

So my guidance to everyone with issues be patient (yes it's hard) email support@cruzbike.com they will catch up. Continue to ask questions here the resources in the tribe are vast and if it was not July vacation season I think the answer rate would be twice what it is. Be constructive with the critiques Cruzbike staff will listen and the next round of bikes will be better and we all benefit from this approach. This was still a kickstarter project and I've been a part of enough of those that they are never perfect, but they get the job done.

The T50 is the ultimate tinkerer bike I'm already impressed with what the experience people are doing with it. Those of you with less experience ask good questions and by the time we get into August I suspect as a community we will have many of the answers in hand and get people rolling down the road. Future T50 owners will benefit from the 152 people that are taking the initial journey, you don't learn to ride a CB in a day, and I certainly know I can't build one in a day. Having a 152 people trying to assemble bikes in a one-month time window is going to challenge us all. I think the tribe's up to it.
 

Eric Winn

Zen MBB Master
I bet Bob opens his T50 box before September. If he doesn't Tanya might. o_O

For the Axiom rack, the two forward tangs probably mount to the threaded holes in the seat stay clamps. There are threaded holes on the inside and outside. I'm guessing the rack will use the inner mount points. You'll need to take care that these seat stay extension tube clamps are straight. You should loosen those clamps (the little bolts in the top part of the clamp) before trying to mount the rack. When you thread whatever fastener you have for those forward tangs into the bottom part of the seat stay clamp keep things loose until you have all of the fasteners started.

Sorry about the focus...
35787092566_fd805d104e_z.jpg


The bottom rack mount point probably goes into the farthest hole back (the one below above the "CLOSE" on my rear wheel skewer) based on what I'm seeing zooming into the photos on the T50 Kickstarter page.

35017581743_ea22d6864a_c.jpg



Another angle outside. Not the best but note you'll need to insure the bottom mount tang does not get in the way of that brake lever rotation and the cable excess might get in your way too depending on how Robert trimmed and capped the rear brake cable. The one below is my handiwork. Some people leave a lot some trim it really short. I like it about like this.
35658342312_586edb5445_c.jpg


I've never mounted an Axiom rack so I'm just guessing based on what I can see in the Kickstarter photos. I have no idea what mounting hardware is included. I would also guess you might have to bend the forward tangs (top front of the rack). You probably should not bend the bottom ones since they support the bulk of the load.

HTH,

-Eric
 

ratz

Wielder of the Rubber Mallet
I bet Bob opens his T50 box before September. If he doesn't Tanya might. o_O
Her yellow one doesn't arrive until December. The red one is mine....

I have to now decide whether to keep or sell the Quests at the end of the season the debate on whether to strip parts off the quests will rage in my brain for most of the summer. I actually think I can do a lot cooler things if I wait until winter. T50 - FaT bike anyone?
 

Eric Winn

Zen MBB Master
T50 - FaT bike anyone?
I was thinking about mounting two 58-559 Compass Rat Trap Pass tires on my T50. I have one in the package still that I bought for the rear wheel of my velo. I was thinking about mounting it temporarily on the front wheel of my second T50 and see if it fits. Looks like the fork crown might be close.

-Eric
 

ratz

Wielder of the Rubber Mallet
I was thinking about mounting two 58-559 Compass Rat Trap Pass tires on my T50. I have one in the package still that I bought for the rear wheel of my velo. I was thinking about mounting it temporarily on the front wheel of my second T50 and see if it fits. Looks like the fork crown might be close.

-Eric
That's my barrier to the project a lot of tire and rim research to figure out what will work. No time for that until fall.
 
Does anyone know of a good hardware glossary that can help some of us who are not experienced builders? Like Vicki C, I am missing some connection hardware for accessories but it is hard to communicate about what's missing or understand what someone else is telling us. The missing "nut" on the bottle cup is easy. But on the Axiom rack only two short hex screws were included that I have used to connect the forward tangs to the seat struts. The connection point for the vertical struts appears to be where Eric said, but I don't think the opening is threaded. The video mentions the need for two 15mm spacers (which was not included in my hardware) but is silent on the dimensions or name of the rest of the connection hardware. So for us newbies it feels like we are both deaf and blind without lists, names, or descriptions that enable us to know what's missing and understand what it is that we are looking for.
 

ratz

Wielder of the Rubber Mallet
Does anyone know of a good hardware glossary that can help some of us who are not experienced builders? Like Vicki C, I am missing some connection hardware for accessories but it is hard to communicate about what's missing or understand what someone else is telling us. The missing "nut" on the bottle cup is easy. But on the Axiom rack only two short hex screws were included that I have used to connect the forward tangs to the seat struts. The connection point for the vertical struts appears to be where Eric said, but I don't think the opening is threaded. The video mentions the need for two 15mm spacers (which was not included in my hardware) but is silent on the dimensions or name of the rest of the connection hardware. So for us newbies it feels like we are both deaf and blind without lists, names, or descriptions that enable us to know what's missing and understand what it is that we are looking for.

Not exactly what you are asking for; but if you become a bike kit builder; then this set of bolts is the best investment you can make.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06VVQXQYX

In the U.S. very few hardware stores stock good bolts any longer and even few have the metric one. Yeah it's $26 but it ensures you dont' hit impasses..

as for the glossary; the late, great, Sheldon Brown is your go to....https://www.sheldonbrown.com
The site is still maintained in his memory by people that know what they are doing.
 

3WHELZ

Guru
Usually, your local Ace hardware store is a good place to find metric bolts. They seem to specialize in hard to find hardware.
 

Rampa

Guru
Her yellow one doesn't arrive until December. The red one is mine....

I have to now decide whether to keep or sell the Quests at the end of the season the debate on whether to strip parts off the quests will rage in my brain for most of the summer. I actually think I can do a lot cooler things if I wait until winter. T50 - FaT bike anyone?

Knowing your penchant for experimenting, you might keep those Quests around just because they may have greater tire clearance in the forks. If they're 559 quests, anyway.
 
Robert just wrote and said he was sending the hardware for the Axiom. But I did order the bolts Ratz suggested so I should be prepared for other glitches and creative work.
 
I'll second the Ace Hardware comment. The one in Port Charlotte, Fl has the necessary hardware when HD or Lowes did not. . Also, that is a nice case of bolts etc from Amazon. No need to leave to run get Hardware.
 

Vicki C.

T50 Trailblazer and Silvio newbie
Since I only apparently have five posts a day, I will update here in one. Thanks for all the advice.

Robert called and emailed and will send a goody bag with missing bolts, etc., including what is needed to mount the Axiom rack. I do have a clearance concern and expressed to him that it looks like both spacers would have to go on the brake side in order to clear the brake and cable, but we will see. The recommendation is one spacer on each side. Also, I believe attaching the rack to the seat back shouldn't be a big deal because the rack bits adjust and even rotate. I think. I haven't really played with it yet.

I did get some advice about the handlebar installation. No need to cut my stem. As someone pointed out earlier, it was cut when the bike was partially assembled. I may need to loosen it back up to make sure that I locked everything down properly and was given instructions for that. We also discussed disk brake adjustments, and if I can't get the wheel centered properly I will take it to the local Cruzbike dealer and give him the opportunity to drool over my new pretty green bike. Of course, he has Silvios and Vendettas and Quests, so he might not be THAT impressed, but will still like to see the T50, I am sure.

I am sad there are no Cruzbike logo bar end caps. I think that is an oversight that needs correction. :)

So, hopefully, all my questions and concerns are addressed, and I appreciate Robert's time in answering my questions.

And I look forward to reading more about the experiences of everyone else. I think my first change will be tires and then gearing. I am reading about an 11-46 with the 40 chain ring.
 

super slim

Zen MBB Master
That's my barrier to the project a lot of tire and rim research to figure out what will work. No time for that until fall.
I agree with Eric and "You will not resist the temptation!!!!!!"

My bet is that within 2 weeks you will be researching wheel tyre combinations!!!
 

Vicki C.

T50 Trailblazer and Silvio newbie
Does anyone know of a good hardware glossary that can help some of us who are not experienced builders? Like Vicki C, I am missing some connection hardware for accessories but it is hard to communicate about what's missing or understand what someone else is telling us. The missing "nut" on the bottle cup is easy. But on the Axiom rack only two short hex screws were included that I have used to connect the forward tangs to the seat struts. The connection point for the vertical struts appears to be where Eric said, but I don't think the opening is threaded. The video mentions the need for two 15mm spacers (which was not included in my hardware) but is silent on the dimensions or name of the rest of the connection hardware. So for us newbies it feels like we are both deaf and blind without lists, names, or descriptions that enable us to know what's missing and understand what it is that we are looking for.

Do contact Cruzbike for the spacers, etc., for your rack. I will be getting those, as well as the missing bolts, etc., for the other accessories. Robert assured me that the Axiom rack works well with the T50. Right now it looks to me as if there might be interference with the brakes, but we will see. If it just won't work, I understand it can be returned. But I want it to work. I appreciated your post and I am glad to know it wasn't just me.
 

Doug Burton

Zen MBB Master
Just a quick note with regard to support. There are times of the year when it can get slow to get an answer. The shipping of the T50 was unfortunately timed right after RAAM. Having been on the RAAM squad I can tell you honestly that the race wiped all of us out. The team format moves so fast it's exhausting. IMHO We all completely underestimated what that was going to mean for both riders and crew. I'm still playing catch up in real life (don't work for CB) so I get see the effect. Example there is a T50 in my garage in a box; if I touch it before September it will be a total miracle. The veterans around here can tell you what that must mean given my proclivity for cool builds and photos...

So By my count, They had 152 backers bikes to box and ship and 3 people to do it; robert, maria, and lucia the later two were on RAAM racing and media. I suspect shipping week was as exhausting as the race and came on the heels of the race; (days after), I also know due to happenstance it was more like two people, take my word but I can't elaborate. Perhaps they should have pushed shipping back a week, but there's that drive to get bikes into people's hands that I can understand. Eyes are bigger than the stomach and all of that.

As for the quality issues; small company, and managing Taiwan is a challenge even for big bike companies; you ask for x and you get X-skewed. It's the way of things and it's as frustrating for them as it is for the customer. Each bike model especially the Silvio has had it's growing pains with the new models. We the longtime customers put up with it because (1) we want to ride these bikes, (2) Cruzbike always makes it right, (3) we'd rather not wait an extra year to have it perfect.

So my guidance to everyone with issues be patient (yes it's hard) email support@cruzbike.com they will catch up. Continue to ask questions here the resources in the tribe are vast and if it was not July vacation season I think the answer rate would be twice what it is. Be constructive with the critiques Cruzbike staff will listen and the next round of bikes will be better and we all benefit from this approach. This was still a kickstarter project and I've been a part of enough of those that they are never perfect, but they get the job done.

The T50 is the ultimate tinkerer bike I'm already impressed with what the experience people are doing with it. Those of you with less experience ask good questions and by the time we get into August I suspect as a community we will have many of the answers in hand and get people rolling down the road. Future T50 owners will benefit from the 152 people that are taking the initial journey, you don't learn to ride a CB in a day, and I certainly know I can't build one in a day. Having a 152 people trying to assemble bikes in a one-month time window is going to challenge us all. I think the tribe's up to it.

So these folks have my absolute sympathy here. Been there, done that, the T-shirt was soaked in sweat.

Those of you who've been around for a while may remember the Cruzbike Sigma, a long-wheelbase bike that was designed to incorporate arm-assisted power in a manner similar to the other Cruzbikes you're more familiar with. This was in 2009.

I had been involved in the development process; I was enthusiastic about the bike and its prospects.

Jim, Maria and John asked me to assemble 15 of them for sale in the US. "It's 15 bikes, how hard can it be?" I told myself.

Well, lemme tell ya. Assembling bikes raw from the manufacturer ain't like putting a bike together that you bought from a retailer.

I was expecting 15 bikes in roughly retail boxes needing assembly. Piece o' cake.

What I got was boxes and boxes and boxes of individual raw components boxed according to what vendor they came from. They literally filled up my garage. They had to be inventoried, classified and inspected, and apportioned into kits to complete each bike.

And then there was the list of 15 machining operations required to complete the frames; operations the framebuilder had failed to complete before painting the frames. So I had to work out ways to do these machining operations without destroying the paint, which I had no way to restore if it were damaged. I built fixtures. I bought tools and modified them to complete the operations fairly efficiently. I had to re-manufacture each steering u-joint to remove the bearings and replace them with delrin bushings to eliminate bearing play in the u-joint. Had to build a tool to do that.

I recruited my wife to help me inventory and sort the parts. This involved 25 bins of separate parts. After all that, I still got some of it wrong.

I used one bike as the "runt". when a badly made part showed up, I pulled a good part from the runt and swapped it. I still have the runt frame kit, but a lot of the parts require significant repair or re-machining.

The boxes that the frames were shipped in weren't large enough to accommodate all the parts when the bikes were kitted-out for shipment, so I had to work out a way to ship the ready-for-assembly bikes.

Two days after I assembled the first one for "first-piece inspection", I had to ship it to a retailer in Florida for a bike show. I minimally disassembled it so the re-assembly would be fast and easy for the retailer. Shipping was $519.00.

Long story short, kitting-out even the frame kits is a cast-iron you-know-what. If you're down on people, it's harder. If you're down on people and in a hurry, it's a little slice of hell.

I think Cruzbike did well on this first run. And I know they will make everything right. They always do.

But I implore you to give 'em some consideration. It ain't as easy as you might think.

Best,

Doug
 
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