Silvio 2 gearing

mzweili

Guru
I'm about gathering the parts for my Silvio 2 build.

My question:

what gearing would you recommend for riding in hilly terrain?

Unfortunately I have a short, steep hill close to my home (¼ mile up to 16%).

I'm not sure that a 28-38-48 triple with 11-34 (22 to 117 GI) would be adequate.
 

Charles.Plager

Recumbent Quant
If you can get a 74 BCD

If you can get a 74 BCD granny gear, you can go down to 24T. Note that you are more limited as far as which cranksets/bottom brackets you can use on a Silvio, but it can be done.

I use a 50/39/24 crankset on my Cruzigami Mantis and I love it. :) (I may someday make it a 52/39/24, but we'll see).
 

ratz

Wielder of the Rubber Mallet
Study the calculator

Warning: this is all math for me on the Silvio platform, the bike was just built and sits on the trainer waiting for spring thaw. I going off the theory that it climbs similr to a DF in most cases.

With that disclaimer: My thought is 22 is pretty low on a two wheeler. I have had such gearing on a DF in the past and never really used them, any time I need that low a gear pedaling it would flip the bike into a wheely. I live in very hill terrain with lots of shorts steeps. To leave my house I have to do ~1000 ft of climbing to get into the surrounding country.

I used the Mike Sherman calculator to build my gearing setup. In my case from experience, if I drop below 30 rpm on an incline I'm likely into the cannot push the gears any further due to a lack of strength and must down shift or get off and walk. So I setup my desired stall speed to be around 2.5 mph at 30 rpm and then line up my gearing with that in mind. Getting easier RPM at that point does not help me if I go slower and tip over.

So in my case I wound up with 29.5-125 GI, that gives me a gear that runs out at my stall speed for steep climb. But a nice tall gear that allows for slow pedaling going down hill without inducing pedal steer. I built my front on a double running 36/52 which shifts like butter, but it is a 110 BCD. If I am wrong and that is t0o big; I can switch to 52/34 which would yield 27.9-125

To go lower I would need a mountain bike 104 or 74 BCD or a triple with more complexity, weight and shifting fiddling.

The key to doing the setup math this way is to know that absolute slowest you can usually pedal under stain before you have to down shift. For me it is 30rpm. My wife struggle below 40rpm. Each person is different. For me my power mash under load is 60rpm beyond that it is not fun really going lower due to strain so I avoid it for all but short bursts. So at the lowest gearing at that RPM that gives me 5.6mph comfort climbing speed. If I encounter hills that I go slower than that on; I basically route around them in the future I really do not want to craw up a hill intentionally. But since we always hit that surprise hill when exploring, I have room to go down to 30rpm to get up and over them that one time they surprised me.

One nerds approach to hills. In 30 days or so I can actually tell you if this translated well to the Silvio platfrom or if I had to rethink my long standing approach.

Here's the link to the Gearing tool

 

Charles.Plager

Recumbent Quant
Here is the gearing on my

Here is the gearing on my Cruzigami Manits. It goes down to 17" and I use that gear almost daily.

Here are some relevant details:
  • I pretty much suck at climbing hills.
  • I try to spin as much as I can (~ 90 rpm). I find my knees are unhappy when I mash for any length at time.
  • I can ride at a stable 3 mph without falling over (unless I'm tired).
  • I really try pretty hard to not walk my bike up hills.
If you've got a tiny granny gear, but never use it, then you're carrying an extra 100 grams.

If you don't have a tiny granny gear but want one, that really sucks.

It is true that on the Silvio, you do have to jump through more hoops to find an appropriate triple that lets you get that small, but it is exactly what I would do. (If anybody wants to call my bluff, please send a Silvio 2.0 frameset to Charles Plager 2xx.......).

Most people here don't have Silvio's geared as low as I'd gear mine and seem to do just fine. TomAEto, tomahto..

Added: I will point out that one of the important things I've found for not slipping on steep hills is to have a very consistent, smooth cadence. I have found that when I don't shift into my tiny gears before the monster steep (yet short) hills, I am much more likely to have wheel spin.
 

ratz

Wielder of the Rubber Mallet
Always love your perspectives

Always love your perspectives Charles, it is your fault I bought a Silvio after all.

I think my stall speed on the Manits would be lower than on a Silvio and probably a lot less likely to fall over; on that configuration I would welcome your lower gears and the ease of getting them on the bike. As for the Silvio, If I win the lottery you are going on the gift list. Until then I have to buy the wife one or she is going to beat me.
 

mzweili

Guru
SAME FOR ME !

''Always love your perspectives Charles, it is your fault I bought a Silvio after all.''
At least partially, with your enthusiasm for Cruzbikes.
Marc
 

iow

Active Member
"I'm not sure that a 28-38-48

"I'm not sure that a 28-38-48 triple with 11-34 (22 to 117 GI) would be adequate"

which triple chainset were you planning to use?
most triples with those tooth counts are mtb chainset with a 64mm bcd inner ring, which will not fit.
apart from wheel slip, i've found the S2.0 climbing ability on steep gradients to be comparable to seated climbing on a DF.
would 22" get you up 16% climb on a DF?
 

Charles.Plager

Recumbent Quant
Until then I have to buy the


I think my stall speed on the Manits would be lower than on a Silvio and probably a lot less likely to fall over; on that configuration I would welcome your lower gears and the ease of getting them on the bike.

That's a very good point about different stall speeds. I am clearly assuming that they would be quite similar and I have no experience to base that on. I do find my low speeds very close on my Sofrider and my Mantis, but my position is quite similar (by design).

Until then I have to buy the wife one or she is going to beat me.


If you bought one for me before buying one for your wife, my wife would beat me. So, I agree. Let's not do that.

Huh. How 'bout this. Order one for your wife, have it and the parts sent to me and I'll put it together and test ride it for her. :D
 

ratz

Wielder of the Rubber Mallet
Out of trouble for now.

Well we decided to buy her frame kit last night. There is enough surplus parts from my Silvio tweaking that it is a shame to let all the parts go to waste; they obviously require a frame to hang them on. I am building out my with carbon bullhorns so I had bars, brifters, wheels, cranks; left over only needed brakes, derailers and a frame so.... we are not a two silvio family. I sense vk2 for the kids coming next. Dam you charles. :) You must now research me a good fork for the vk2 as punishment..... or should I say thanks. We now return you to the gearing thread.
 

Charles.Plager

Recumbent Quant
Ha! Wonderful news!
(I really


Ha! Wonderful news!

(I really do need to talk to John and the Parkers and see what kind of commission I can get here... :D )
 

super slim

Zen MBB Master
on my Silvio V1.0 I have a

on my Silvio V1.0 I have a triple crankset (153 mm cranks) with 74 and 130 pcd with a 24 tooth circular granny, a 39 T q ring and a 53 tooth Q ring which goes from 50 to 56 teeth PCD, so the Minimum gear inches is 18.4 to a max 133, with a 11-34 10 speed rear cassette.

My minimum pedaling speed is 3.5 KPH (2.2 mph) which relates to 40 Cadence in 24/34
My maximum speed pedaling is 76 kph (48 mph) DOWNHILL which relates to 120 Cadence in 56/11

Gear changes to/from the granny are slow but consistent.

On the V2.1 the crank needs to be offset 3.5?mm to clear the Bottom bracket clamp. This has been done and is in another thread.

The drop from 30 T to 24 T was a major benefit for me climbing up to 12% long grades, as I need a new engine, but I have been up 19% 100 m long grade on a dry day only, as the road is very smooth and if wet I get off before, as there are only so many falls my delicate body can take!

Super Slim
 

Charles.Plager

Recumbent Quant
My non Silvio experience is

My non Silvio experience is very similar to Super Slim 's as my triple is very similar (I don't have e rings but would love to try them).

I sometimes call it a road double with a granny gear. Switching between the top two rings is completely trivial. Dropping into granny requires shifting both front and back simultaneously and therefore means I'm o little less likely to do it, but for wrenching up those long steep inclines, I'd hate to do it without it.
 
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