Y26 Progress (was My persistence in searching has borne fruit!)

[Andrew 1973]

Looking Good

Hi, SamP.

I have often wanted to attempt building a conversion. Seeing one that looks as good as yours is coming along really makes me want to try it.

 

[SamP]

Version 1.0 complete and first ride report

Andrew: I knew basically nothing about bike maintenance or assembly before i started this. I would not consider myself particularly mechanically inclined (but nor would I consider myself inept). I've been interested in acquiring a recumbent bike since sometime in college (several decades ago) before acting on an impulse a few weeks ago.

Bought a bike shift cable and housing kit this afternoon and went to the bikeshop co-op to properly tighten the three-piece chainstay bolt (which meant I needed to pull the right crank and chainrings first) and install the shift cable. I wasn't able to shift to the lowest two gears as the derailleur ran into the largest cog. I adjusted the position of the wheel in the FWD bracket dropouts to get some more clearance but now while there wasn't a collision the bike would shift down and then immediately shift back up on its own. The bike mechanic spent some time checking it out then decided that the chain was too short. Putting the chain on a smaller chainring allowed the rear derailleur to shift into the lowest gears. I just went and measured it and the (original) bottom bracket to the rear hub is 17", but the front bottom bracket to front hub distance is 18". I guess I'll need to get a new chain eventually.

Before I went to install the (rear derailleur) shift cable I tried some more flintstoning and I was a little bit better than yesterday, but balancing with my feet on the pedals was very difficult and actually pedaling was nearly impossible. Besides having a tendency to swerve wildly and (start to) fall, the handlebars kept on twisting askew (keep in mind there was no cable to the rear deraileur so it was in the highest gear which meant I had to push quite hard on the pedals).

After installation of the rear derailleur cable I spent about 90 minutes on the bike and went from balancing while coasting down a slight decline to pedaling while mostly in control. I still can't stay in a straight enough line for a bike path but definitely progress. My knees are occasionally bumping into the lower shifter levers, I'll have to move the seat position forward a bit or do something with the handlebars, maybe even reverse the stem. The handlebars still have a tendency to twist around when I apply a lot of pressure to the pedals, maybe I'll have to take a bigger wrench to them or maybe some sort of tape to the steerer extension tube under the riser clamp to increase friction.

I'm going to revise how I attach cables to the frame (right now just some very thin zip ties) tonight and tomorrow I'll spent at least an hour or two in the seat.

Very near future plans:

1. improve cable to frame mounting
2. lubricate chain (i haven't lubed it since I thoroughly cleaned it by soaking in minieral spirits overnight)

Future plans

* fix handlebar twisting
* somehow increase knee clearance
* shorten brake cables (I cut the brake cables about 6-12 inches longer than they need to be)
* reapply loctite to bolts that need them (I've screwed and unscrewed pretty much everything at least once)
* install replacement pivot clamp bushing (i lost one so I only have one in the pivot tube at the moment, I've ordered a replacement)
* replace chain with longer
* mount front derailleur

 

[SamP]

More riding comments

After another hour or so of riding around a parking lot, I'm getting a lot better. Even slight uphill starts are very difficult. The rear suspension seems to be doing its job, i can feel bumps but they're not jarring. I'm getting a lot more vibration through the handlebars. I'm now mostly in control while getting up to 17-18 mph (I mounted an ANT+ cadence/speed sensor).

To keep the brake and derailleur cables in place, I wrapped a base layer of electrical tape, then ziptied a (electrical) cable clamp to the tape. This seems to work though I'm not really pleased with it.

I've tightened the handlebar riser about as much as I could with a ratchet, now the handlebar twists a lot less, but its still twisting under heavy pedalling/arm pulling torque. Am i going to have to roughen or remove some of the paint or does anyone have a better suggestion?

The rubber edge protector on the edge of the seat keeps falling off, I'm thinking of more tape to keep it in place.

The front wheel keeps needing adjustment, it keeps on shifting a bit and rubbing against the right brake. I don't see how I can tighten the QR any more.

I'm unsatisfied with the location of the handlebars, I think either closer or farther would be better; I also could use more knee clearance. Need a lot more thought and scrounging in the used parts bins.

 

[Charles.Plager]

Hi,
Apparently I'm going to

Hi,

Apparently I'm going to response in almost perfect reverse order.

I use this adjustable stem on both of my Cruzbikes. It can help a lot.

On my conversion, I added a single washer on outside of the drive side to make sure the wheel stays put.

If your handlebars are twisting (which I agree is bad), then maybe a shim? I'm sure you can figure something out here, but it's worth doing so as this would annoy the *#$# out of me, too.

Starting on hills is a skill that comes with practice. My problem is that because I like to spin up the hills, I am often in a very low gear. Too low a gear is difficult to start with because you haven't built up any speed by the time you've finished your first stroke. I still have problems starting on steep hills (or moderately steep hills when it's wet). In one instance, I had a friend give me a push (which actually helped a lot).

I glued the rubber edge protector back on my seat and it's much better now.

Finally, I've only got fully suspended Cruzbikes, but I can imagine not having front suspension would lead to more vibration.

Nice write-ups and good progress. Keep riding and keep letting us know how it's going!

Cheers,
Charles

 

[hurri47]

handlebar probs

I had the twisting bar problem with the quill-type stem (angled wedge block inside the riser) that came with the bike. Scary amounts of torque could not make it stay put. I then tried a stem made for threadless headsets (clamps to OUTSIDE of the riser) that solved it completely.

As near as I can tell, knee position is a problem that affects ALL conversion kit Cruzbikes. Like you, I would have preferred either nearer or farther bars - just not right over my knees, please. The adjustable stem Charles likes might solve both problems for you at the same time, but I made one additional change: flat bars with the stem mounted behind the riser. My elbows are no longer straight that way, so I need a bit more arm muscle involvement instead of steering from the shoulder, but my knees are well in front and I'm liking it.

-Dan

 

[SamP]

Thanks for the suggestions Charles

I put a washer on the drive side of the QR and it seems to work for keeping the wheel locked in place.

The vibration and bumps in the handlebar isn't a problem, its just noticeable compared to the vibration and bumps coming up through the seat. I do have a brand new suspension fork, I just would need to cut off the disc brake mounts to use it (because it is brand new I'm slightly adverse to doing so right now...) It would raise the front end by about 3" which would have made it harder to learn to ride but now that I'm getting the hang of riding it probably will be fine.

The front wheel tends to flop a lot at rest and isn't very stable at speed, I'm thinking of moving where the front fork mounts to the FWD brackets to the rear set of holes instead of the middle to increase the amount of trail.

Dan: I already have an Aheadset threadless headset/stem.

I increased the length the TFT a bit and that seems to have taken care of the knee clearance for now. Now I need to figure out what I want to do about the handlebars. Maybe some bar ends, or bullhorns or road drops (possibly upside down).

To other new riders: the riding instructions which tell you to start out with open hands on the grips? Very important. Most of my swerving happens when I pull rather than push on the handlebars. I have a tendency to want to pull probably due to trained reactions from riding my regular bike.

 

[Charles.Plager]

Hi Sam,
I agree that the

Hi Sam,

I agree that the lower height makes sense for learning how to ride.

For what it's worth, I'd probably wait and see if you can find a decent used suspension fork where (where it either doesn't have tabs or cost you such that you don't mind cutting them off). I'd be interested in your thoughts as to what it adds (if anything).


Cheers,
Charles

 

[Charles.Plager]

 If it's not expensive, just

If it's not expensive, just take it to a shop to have the tabs cut off. It's hard to make money selling bike parts, so you might as well put it to good use.

 

[SamP]

The new suspension fork

The new suspension fork didn't actually cost me much: it is a low end, previous generation, REI super-duper clearance special (it had already gone through multiple REI garage sales without any interest). It's just so pretty that taking an angle grinder to it just gives me a bit of a shudder... My other bike has a quill steerer so can't use it unless I change the headset out. I guess I could try selling it on craigslist.

 

[chrisblessing]

handlebars

If I may suggest, take a look at the Rans B39 handlebars. In conjunction with the adjustable stem you'll have a lot of options to assure knee clearance and optimal arm length.

 

[SamP]

Minor progress

The replacement pivot tube bushing arrived and was installed.

I discussed my handlebar twisting with my LBS mechanic which lead me to discover the pivot clamp on the steerer extension tube wasn't tightened down. After tightening that clamp the handlebar no longer has twisting problems (for now at least).

There was a kind of flat spot on the rear wheel which was very noticeable (as a significant vibration) when I got up to speed. I brought it to the LBS and the mechanic checked it out on a trueing stand. He suggested I dismount the tire from the rim then remount it. After that it seemed a lot better, I guess the bead wasn't on the rim quite right.

I brought out my dremel (well, B&D's clone), bought some cut off wheels and with some difficulty cut off the disc brake mounts from the suspension fork I've got. I partially disassembled the front triangle and went to test fit the brackets to the new fork and discovered I had a lot more cutting and grinding to do. So I reassembled the front triangle on the bike with the rigid fork. I checked out possibly using a different hole on the FWD bracket to bolt on the fork but there was a small eyelet on the fork which prevented the FWD bracket from rotating to a reasonable angle. I wanted to do this to increase the trail a bit, with the rigid fork the front end is a few inches closer to the ground, increasing the head tube angle which decreased the trail. I may try to dremel those eyelets off a bit, I have no idea what they are for.

I looked at the old front derailleur again, the 34.9 marking on the inside bothered me a bit. I wondered if you were supposed to cut off the plastic liner if you wanted to mount it to a 34.9mm tube. Eventually realized the liner was actually removable with a good tug and now the derailleur will clamp to the TFT sleeve--I don't need to acquire a new derailleur after all. I've mounted it to about the right spot, broke the chain and threaded it through the derailleur. Reconnected the chain and adjusted the low limit screw. Now I need to cable up the front derailleur and finish adjusting it.

I'll eventually need to buy a new chain--the old chain is too short. The original distance from the original bottom bracket to the rear axle was 17". The new front bottom bracket to the front axle is 18". I can't get into the two lowest gears with the the chain on the largest chainring. Once I get the front derailleur cabled up, this limitation will be moderately tolerable, but still...

Further future, I am interested in getting a larger big chainring. I've currently got a 42/34/24 in the crankset. I suspect I'll need to change out the whole crankset and the front derailleur at the same time--the current old derailleur apparently won't go any larger.

Todo list:

1. cable up front derailleur and adjust
2. shorten brake cables
3. redo cable to frame mountings (ought to have a discussion about this: ziptie, tape, velcro, etc)
* replace chain with longer
* acquire and try a cruiser-style handlebar
* reapply loctite to bolts that need them (I've screwed and unscrewed pretty much everything at least once)
* install TFT safety bolt
* install insert collar
* more cutting and grinding of suspension fork
* improve drive train (go to 8-9 speeds on cassette, bigger chainrings on crankset)

 

[Charles.Plager]

 Hi,
 sounds like you're

Hi,

sounds like you're making good progress.

Get the new chain sooner than later as you can destroy your rear derailleur /wheel if you shift into the wrong gear with too short a chain.

Also, front derailleurs are notoriously under spec'ed. You may not need to change it, but rather readjust it when you get different crankset

Keep having fun and I think new pictures are in order.

 

[SamP]

USS YIG rev 1.1 nearly complete

USS YIG (tentative name) revision 1.1 is nearly complete: just need to mount seat. Significant improvements over 1.0x versions: front derailleur and new chain allows all gears to be reached.

Pictures, description, and handling qualities evaluation tomorrow (err.. this afternoon).

 

[Charles.Plager]

Wait... USS like a ship?
 Or

Wait... USS like a ship?
Or USS like under seat steering?
Cuz those are very different.

 

[SamP]

Heh

[Star] Trek Y [chemical symbol for Yttrium] 26 [atomic number for Iron] [Garnet for kicks] CruzBike Conversion [Cruiser]

 

[SamP]

Handlebar acquired

From the bike shop I've picked up some used parts earlier, I've picked up a used aluminum alloy cruiser handelbar and a somewhat longer stem and a pair of grips, all for the princely sum of $17. The "new" handlebars will be added to make version 1.2 sometime in the future. I may wait until I finish removing the disc brake tabs from the suspension fork.

Pictures of the current revision will show up, I promise!

 

[SamP]

Photos

See Conversion Kit Brag Board

Name finalized to USS Yiggy

 

[SamP]

Parts for revision 1.2

The suspension fork and handlebar

The fork is a Rock Shox Dart 2, a previous generation low end suspension fork. Picked it up from REI on clearance for about $55. The handlebar is a Promax HB-320TP, a 6061 alloy cruiser-style handlebar with a 31.8mm clamping area. The stem is a Bontrager unknown model, 110mm, 7 degrees. The handlebar, stem, and grips are used and were acquired from PhoenixBikes for $17.

I had to remove the disc brake tabs using dremel-clone tool using several heavy duty cut-off wheels, a silicon carbide cutting bit, and several grinding bits. I almost bought an angle grinder but it turned out to be not necessary (my first cuts did not go very well but I got better over time).

It could still do with a bit more polishing but I'm ready to give it a try.

Should I paint this?

You can see where my control was less than good.

 

[SamP]

Version 1.2 beta almost ready to ride

I had attempted to put the new suspension fork on the bike but ran into problems, the headset parts fell out and I wasn't quite sure I got it back together correctly and the new fork didn't have a crown race. I bought a new headset and had the LBS install it on the new suspension fork. The headset/fork/install cost is a significant fraction of the total cost to date, it is also the only time I've paid a bike mechanic to do work on the USS Yiggy.

Installed the "new" stem and cruiser-style handlebar. Unfortunately the rear derailleur cable is a bit short, so I put the brifter much closer to the stem than its natural location so I can give it a test ride tomorrow. Yet another new shifter cable is in my near future. I need to do something for grips.

I visited a bike shop I haven't been to over the weekend and found another source of used parts. I acquired a set of pedals with toeclips there that don't look like they've ever been used. I took off the stock pedals which I couldn't add toeclips to and put these on tonight.

I've noticed that the front end with the suspension fork no longer bounces when dropped. I'll probably need to adjust the preload on the fork. The bike is about 3 pounds heavier now.

Some adjustment of the derailleurs needs to be done tomorrow and then off I go I hope.

 

[SamP]

First ride impressions on version 1.2 beta 1

Quick impressions (only about 5 minutes on bike, it is a light drizzle outside):

Significantly less thump and vibration going over bumps (this is at very low speeds though).

Significantly more stable. With the rigid fork, it looked like there was little to no trail due to the lower front end and hence steeper head tube angle. Steering was very twitchy and it took very little to go for the stering to go into a lot of swerving. With the higher front end on the suspension fork resulting in a shallower head tube angle, it looks like there is a noticeable amount of trail and the steering definitely feels more planted. Again this was only a few minutes at low speeds.

I don't have the front derailleur adjusted quite right. I'm also concerned about the chainstay angle of the front derailleur, with the new fork in it might be too large for the derailleur. The chain seems to want to rub the top of the derailleur cage now in some gears.

Update: Aha! I added some spacers on the fork steerer tube because it was so long for the part of the steerer extension tube that goes over the steerer tube, but that raised the pivot clamp and increased the chainstay angle. So if I cut down the steerer tube about 1.5 inches that might take care of the front derailleur problems.