Comparing Vendetta to DF speeds

[Don1]

marko have jp a big wrap on his facebook feed too. which was nice conpared to last year

 

[LarryOz]

Comparing the Vendetta to conventional Diamond Frame speeds is exactly one of the things I wanted to understand when I was researching recumbents. I found a lot of information that said the Vendetta was faster and I looked at race results, but what it doesn't tell you is how fast would *I* be on that bike?

So, I had a few KOM's before I got the Vendetta, and I was faster on the Vendetta by the end of the first week, however, what's really important to understand is that I adapted slowly. After a month I was faster. Another month and I was faster still. Now, one thing that I did is keep training on both bikes. So, for comparison, it was me riding the Vendetta vs. me riding an S-Works Tarmac. A lot of people asked me if the muscles were different. I believe the answer is yes. On the Vendetta my upper body is more laid back. On the Tarmac I am fighting to get my upper body lower and out of that horrible wind. As a result, I can notice a difference in my hip flexors. They are more stretched out on the Vendetta. This is about the same position as on the Tarmac when standing, but the proportion of time in that position is 100% on the Vendetta vs. 5% on the Tarmac.

One thing that was really cool though was that I got faster on both bikes. It used to be the case that I would have to stop because my wrists hurt. My back hurt. My neck hurt. Et cetera. On the Vendetta, the only thing that ever hurt were my muscles. This was great because it meant that I could keep going. Because I never stopped as the result of discomfort, I got to keep training my legs and yes, the training does seem to transfer.

I'm not the fastest rider by any means on my Tarmac compared to others, but on my Vendetta, there is no one in the group that can even hope to pull around me. I can essentially take any KOM I choose in this area.

Where I ride, it is completely flat. I can go for a one hundred mile ride with zero feet of elevation gain. So, in a way, every segment in Strava is the same. The only difference is the length. So, anyway - what I was super curious about was - for the same rider - in the same conditions - on the same flat road - what is the difference in speed between the two bikes!?

https://www.strava.com/activities/840822213 <-- Tarmac, 35.6mph
https://www.strava.com/activities/841090609 <-- Vendetta, 38.9mph

So, there you have it. Same rider. Same day. Same flat ground. Same max effort on my part. What was the difference? About 10% ... This was all downwind. The Vendetta's advantage increases into the wind. On flat ground, it is entirely about aerodynamics. The result of this particular test is essentially the same as every other comparison I have attempted. On flat ground, for me, the Vendetta is always about 10% faster. In a way, that might not seem like a lot, but it's huge. It's the difference between succeeding in a solo break way and getting dropped by the peloton.

Going up hill, at some point the Tarmac is going to reclaim the advantage. It's much lighter, but also, when the speed drops below around 8mph, you can use more body english when standing to balance. It's easier. What goes up must come down and going down, advantage goes back to the Vendetta without a doubt. I would be curious to know - what is that grade of road that hits this tipping point where the weight of the bike matters more than the aerodynamics?

Another thing I should mention, since we're talking about KOM's is - how am I getting along with the other riders in the area? I'll be honest. There have been some hurt feelings, mostly friendly teasing and banter, but even some outbursts of anger. There are some KOM's that I didn't take just so that I would have something to try for on my Tarmac. Anyway, I'm still riding with the group and we've even had a couple more recumbents join the fray. One of the comments at the start of the ride made to me was "Who are you going to ride with on that?" My response was, "Anyone that can keep up!"

Great write-up, and of course confirms what we all know.
I looked at your Strava files, but did not see any actual power data.
All the power numbers are estimated: Are you not using a power meter?

 

[RojoRacing]

Congrats.

I looked at the fly-by and it didn't appear you tried to drop him on the downhill towards the end so figured you were finishing together.

Awesome that he's crushing it on a basic Tarmac or Roubaix rather than some aero road bike.

I was giving it a solid effort on all the DHs after 100 miles but I'll admit I did take it easy on the first few DHs but not by much. Marko was able to draft me on the DHs just fine using his TT bars and even dropped low in the drops when I spin out and switch to coasting. I think the difference is Marko must have a solid 20lbs of weight on me so gravity is on his. The last DH in particular I was pedaling as much as possible with minimal coasting but I stuck to me like glue. If I was racing I wouldn't have tried extra hard to stay with him on the climbs and I would have planned to fly by on the DH after we each had already reached top speed so he couldn't latch on.

Sometimes rides like this are worth a ton in mutual respect between riders which we could use more of with our who "them vs us" outlook we tend to have in the recumbent world.

 

[Barefoot Biker]

Great write-up, and of course confirms what we all know.
I looked at your Strava files, but did not see any actual power data.
All the power numbers are estimated: Are you not using a power meter?

Thanks. In those examples, I estimated by comparing my maximum full out effort. Just my top possible speed. I don't have a power meter so, it's possible that the efforts were different, but I also can't say which bike receives more or less power. In other words, maybe I put out less power on one or the other because of my position or some other factor, but the end result is what I care about and it seems to be fairly consistent no matter how I check. I am taking up a fund for a power meter though. ;-)

Congrats Jason on your great result!!!

 

[anotherbrian]

A 54T chainring helped me drop Clydesdale wheelsuckers on downhills. If they're spinning out a 52/53 behind you, as soon as you can get a little gap they'll become their own drag chute.

 

[LarryOz]

I am taking up a fund for a power meter though. ;-)

Having the true power readings is the best because your HR will lie to you and your perceived effort will feel harder each successive interval (for same power) as you fatigue.
I find the best way to compare between 2 things is to have an average power reading per lap on my Garmin, start the lap on "the course" , and then adjust your effort to hit the power level you want (or if 1st go just go all out and see what you get.), then stop lap. Then switch the bike (or the thing you are testing on the bike), run the same course and start and stop the lap at the same mileage, but this time paying close attention to the lap average power, so you can adjust your effort to make the power come out to match almost exactly.
Then you have the exact same power efforts for the same route. The resulting average speed is then comparable.
I have a nice PT hub power meter than I bought when testing my crank power meters.
If you are interested email me at larryoslund@gmail.com

 

[anotherbrian]

DBC 300K is Saturday.

Weather.com has forecast alternating daily between showers and cloudy. If the forecast looks clear on Friday evening, I'll remove seats from our minivan and figure out how to make the recumbent fit, otherwise I'll ride my fendered road bike instead with a 12hr goal.

If that's the case I wouldn't mind cruising with you. Remind me next week after I e cleared this weekend race out of my head.

 

[RojoRacing]

:lol I had already forgot about the the brevet. I was already trying to figure out what to do this weekend. I'll keep an eye on the weather.