Farther, Faster, Fitter, Fun - (4F - The unofficial Cruzbike training team and support group)

Discussion in 'Cruzbike Class (Riding & Refining your Technique)' started by ratz, Jun 8, 2016.

  1. ratz

    ratz Wielder of the Rubber Mallet

    So…. you have purchased a shiny Cruzbike and now you want to go farther, faster for less effort and more fun. Or you want to maximize the smack down you put on those other bikes, or perhaps your friends who are afflicted with Bikeism. If so, then this is your thread.

    Ok then, what is it that is stopping you? If the answer is you do not know how to train, or you are not motivated to do it in a vacuum, then this thread is for you.

    If you do not care if you are the slowest bike around, but yet you love Data and the Science of cool things, then this thread is for you.

    Ok, now that I have your attention; where-the-heck is this going?

    We all love our Cruzbikes and we know they go faster pound for pound, watt for watt than anything else we have tried, and they do it far more comfortably on flat roads and on hills. However, there is a limited amount of hard performance data about them and recumbent bikes in general for that matter. The data is out there but most is in the hands of the individual riders or small groups. Race results speak for themselves, however, that only goes so far and is highly athlete dependent. In that void, I wanted to find a fun way to start to filling in the blanks for my own curiosity. Towards that end, I am organizing 4F the un-official Cruzbike Training Team and Support group.

    The goal of the effort will be:
    1. Provide generalized training guidance geared to those new to structured training.
    2. Use the massive TrainerRoad.com workout library and their excellent training software.
    3. Gather all the training data in TrainingPeaks.com for analysis, feedback monitoring, and MBB platform analysis.
    4. Support and encourage you to reach your goals.
    5. Introduce beginners to the benefits of traditional aerobic base building (go slower to get faster).

    See the details about what trainerroad.com and trainingpeaks.com are at the end of this post.

    The execution at its simplest will consist of:
    1. You join in and decide what kind of riding you want to do and how much time you can devote to training.
    2. You select a prescribed TrainerRoad program at the volume level that matches your time requirements (High, Medium, Low). Guidance will be provided for beginners.
    3. Pretty much everyone without prior experience will start in the Traditional Base program and then branch off depending on their individual goals.
    4. Your results get reviewed and feedback is given to keep you on course; and the group at large can discuss (here in this thread and on the TR team area) progress and struggles to help everyone succeed

    Now the deeper details:

    Yes, the program will be limited to using the TrainerRoad library. There simply is not time for me to build custom plans for everyone and frankly; TrainerRoad has just about every base covered. The TrainerRoad library can get anyone from couch to competent, and after that you will have an excellent understanding of how to take it farther on your own. When they release their training camps if will get even better.

    Yes, you will need a paid TrainerRoad account to participate in this adventure. If you did not; then you would have to steal their workouts, and I am not going there. That team has put much time and effort into their product, they are saving us all a fortune in coaching costs. The good news is: that subscription is the only recurring cost in this program (if you don't count chain lube and tires).

    I am also pleased to share with everyone that a member of the TrainerRoad team has recently joined the forums. When informed of this project they generously offered to provide promo-codes for people participating in the program. Once we have our starting group of people assembled, I will disseminate codes that will allow you to sign up for a discounted TrainerRoad subscription. After that initial wave, if the project is successful, we can bring on board new participants in batches with additional codes. Therefore, if you do not have a TrainerRoad account yet hang tight before you get one so that I can request and distribute the needed codes. Likewise, if you do not have everything you need to join in just yet (aka you are waiting on your new V20 or Kickr), we can get you in a later batch.

    Do you have to do the Traditional Aerobic approach to start with? No, but that is the focus of what I am organizing for the beginners as an approach, it is long proven, and has the broad applicability to all types of riding. If you want to go with a different approach, you will still be welcome on the journey, you will just be more on you own and it may take longer to answer your questions. If subgroups form around other approaches and people step up to guide that effort that’s cool.

    The requirements:
    1. You will need to supply your own Cruzbike (all models welcome)
    2. You will need to supply your own TrainerRoad.com Account
    3. You will need an indoor trainer capable of at least TrainerRoad Virtual Power
    4. ERG Trainers like the KICKR are preferred
    5. Your trainer will need to be compatible with your Cruzbike, which may be a problem for the IGH Quests.
    6. You need to be able to regularly ride on your trainer; and when you fall off the wagon, you need to be able to get back on. Or in other words in some way shape or form you have to want improvement be it speed, effort, weight, etc.
    7. You do not need an outdoor power meter, but having one is beneficial
    8. You will need a HR Monitor for the aerobic phase.
    9. You will need an Electronic device cable of running the TrainerRoad software and gathering the data (Win, Mac, iOS, Android)
    10. You will need a Free TrainingPeaks.com Account.
    11. Your TrainingPeaks account will need to be linked to my Coaches account.
    12. You need to allow analysis of your data; which includes disclosing your weight and age.
    13. If you are going to gather outdoor data you will need a device (Garmin, Smart phone etc.) that can gather at least your HR and Speed.
    14. Cruzbike, Inc. may want to use your de-identified data for research or marketing, and you must be OK with that.
    You can join in at anytime you like. Most people will find it beneficial to start in the offseason about 3 weeks after some rest. But we will start this in late June for those that want to get going right away; not everyone has the same offseason after all. This will help me debug the process. So you have many months to figure out if you want to do this and acquire the pieces; or you can jump right in.

    So if you made it this far with this post, you might be thinking man I have to provide a lot if I want to do this training stuff. Yes, you do; but you already have the Cruzbike. In the end, you need to bring the motivation, enthusiasm and the TrainerRoad subscriptions to conduct your workouts in a format that can be consistent and digested without a huge time commitment from those lining up to help and support you.

    What is going to happen with all the data? Frankly I do not know; I need to gather it in my Training Peaks coaching account to see if it tells an interesting story. At the very least, I would like to make it available to Cruzbike to study. It might be useless; and we might only have a nice little training community chasing goals. Then again, it might reveal some interesting trends; but until the data exists it is just guesswork.

    How do I join in?

    If you want to participate, reply in this thread to indicate your interest and the date you would envision being ready to start. I will compile the list and contact people with the next steps to get started. Ok so who is in? 1 person, 2 people, 50 people; does not matter to me. We currently have 3 people doing it now in Alpha test mode; and it's been very interesting and enjoyable.

    What is TrainerRoad.com?

    TrainerRoad is indoor cycling software for PC, Mac and iOS that makes cyclists and triathletes faster. By picking up the data from your Bluetooth Smart or ANT+ wireless devices, TrainerRoad gives athletes structured, power-based interval workouts.

    After a brief fitness assessment, TrainerRoad tailors more than 800 workouts and 40 discipline-specific training plans to your individual fitness level to make you a faster cyclist.


    TrainerRoad also offers a free cycling podcast that averages 1 hour in length. Each week (the cycling authorities at TrainerRoad gather for a roundtable discussion to answer queries submitted from athletes around the globe, as well as dish about their latest training experiments, discoveries and tips.


    What is trainingpeaks.com?

    TrainingPeaks provides the complete web, mobile and desktop solution for enabling smart and effective endurance training. Their products include TrainingPeaks.com Athlete and Coach Edition, WKO+ desktop software for cutting-edge scientific analysis and planning, and the TrainingPeaks mobile apps for iOS and Android. TrainingPeaks solutions are used by Tour de France teams, Ironman World Champions, Olympians, and age group athletes and coaches around the world to track, analyze and plan their training. WKO will be the primary tool for analyzing the data in this project.


    Yep I changed the thread name to "4F" because if we leave out the fun what's the point :cool:
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2016
    Eric Winn, LarryOz and super slim like this.
  2. LarryOz

    LarryOz Zen MBB Master

    What a surprise!! Count me in Ratz! ;)
    I will expect to get fitter and go farther and faster.. hopefully before the end of August .. zoom ... zoom
  3. ReklinedRider

    ReklinedRider Zen MBB Master

    Sounds like something I would love to do, but am a little confused af the moment. Is this something that we'll need an indoor trainer for right away, and need to train indoors during the summer riding season?
  4. ratz

    ratz Wielder of the Rubber Mallet

    Good question. And exactly why we are organizing this; now rather than October (at least for the north hemisphere riders)

    Structure Training needs a basis. Todays techniques mostly base that on Power. So you need a way to gather power eventually. You can do the training on the road if you have a power meter but it takes a lot of extra effort hence the focus on the trainer and while many people do it in the office. In season, the trainer still has it's place and as it can be done on rainy days or days when you can't get out on the road due to the sun being to hot etc. I've been known to just put the trainer in the garage and ride on a thunderstorm day assuming the mosquitoes stay under control; but I do prefer the basement with a fan and a movie.

    So you have options and solutions. I think #3 is the best plan for people that want to acquire a trainer after the leaves turn; but I will least the three approaches for consideration.

    1) Acquire Trainer and start using it on days you can't get on the road. Let the road be for fun and the Trainer be for..... well training. Some plans only require a trainer ride 3 times a week; that's surprisingly easy to fit in for summer filler. Saving for an Erg trainer is recommended if you plan a long term commitment they are much more enjoyable to ride; I hate fluid/mechanical trainers I love my electronic trainer the difference is hard to explain until you use them; then it's obvious. but both can be used. I've come to enjoy the miles on the Kickr as much as the road; it's a different thing but it's enjoyable exercise. This gives you the fastest results

    2) Acquire a Power meter and we can review how to do this on the open road; the power meter can then also be used with a non-erg trainer to give you better results that you could get on traditional trainer alone and control net cost...not my favorite option I think the erg trainer is better bang for the buck before the power meter

    3) Plan on having a trainer for fall/winter; and we start you on a simple MAF plan using just you existing heart rate monitor and recording device for the time being... However, If doing that; If you can swing it I strongly recommend upgrading and getting a PowerCAL HR strap ($69-$120 depending on what you can find the Blue Tooth one is more expensive than the older ANT+ only unit). The PowerCal is widely misunderstood. It will generate Power numbers from your heart rate data. It's terribly inaccurate for anything under 30 second averages meaning you can not use it during training; but for 30s and up it's shockingly accurate which makes it totally useful for post training measurement and outdoor post ride analysis. (you just ignore the sub 30 second analysis). You get all that you for a $120 device. With MAF training we simply calculate 180 - age = aerobic HR threshold. There are other wasy to calculate your Aerobic threshold but this one will be lower and certain to work (Ego beware). Then you go out and ride. For 2 weeks no ride outdoors should exceed 180 - age for you HR (I use an alarm on my Garmin)....... then after that for a total of 8 weeks; 80% of your rides should be Aerobic and below 180-age. This can suck at times; because for the first 4 weeks going up a hill at 180-age will be really hard; to really do it you might have to stop and walk (this is why a trainer is handy; it's easier on the ego). But if you do this you will slowly get fitter a fitter and you will start to go up hills at a much lower HR.... The entire time you train at this 180-age you will burn body fat; which will make you lighter and fitter. . (The only challenge to the MAF plan is one of Ego) On the other rides you can go out and hit it hard. During this phase we would just gather data in TrainingPeaks to make sure you are succeeding; This sort of training can prepare you for a very productive off season without taking the fun out of the next three months. After 8 weeks of structuring and monitoring your riding this way; you will be the biker that wants to ride and talk while everyone else is sucking wind and begging you to shut up so they can focus on riding. @JOSEPHWEISSERT has gone on about this at length before this is his secret offseason trick to become batman. Nothing says you can't do it in season; just that darn ego that wants to go fast all the time.
    Bruce B and ReklinedRider like this.
  5. SamP

    SamP Guru

    180-age? Ouch, I'm not sure I can even pedal 10 mph on level ground and keep my HR that low.

    [edited to add]

    I do recall Larry mentioning training at threshold, I didn't know what that threshold was.
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2016
  6. ratz

    ratz Wielder of the Rubber Mallet

    Indeed. You should have heard Larry; I believe he's mentioned it elsewhere. "How hard can that be" follow by OMG-osh this is really hard; All four of our alpha crew Larry, Steve (our token DF guy), Myself and Pluckyblond about died the first few days of doing this. It's easy for about 1 hour and 30 minutes and then it's not. But then you slowly get much better over time. The problem at hand is that many people train too hard but not hard enough. So the 180-age is about staying in the aerobic range, it's very approachable about for everyone of all ages because it's "Easy Hard" and it works. The focus on using trainers and trainerroad is that maximizes the ability to hit those slow targets over a structured period.
    super slim likes this.
  7. super slim

    super slim Zen MBB Master

    Ratz for an oldish guy like me that is 116 BPM, which is really low!!!
    To achieve that, I think I would fall off the bike, as I would be going so slow!!!
  8. ratz

    ratz Wielder of the Rubber Mallet


    I'm guessing your lifetime of commuting on bike is going to probably get you the +10 exception; but; yes the affects of aging on power and max aerobic ceiling suck. Again though what been proven over time; is if you can train truly aerobic; you raise the capabilities of your aerobic output and even if you don't "race" and "compete" that lets you go faster at the same comfortable level; and if you want to go hard your starting point is higher so you ceiling is higher.

    Now you could also calculate your Aerobic range with one of the other formula. My money though will bet on the 180 formula as succeed more often for the greatest number of people in a reliable many; under shoot and it still works over shoot and it doesn't.
  9. DavidCH

    DavidCH In thought; expanding the paradigm of traversity

    Haaa most Americans are overweight so I guess that's why you go 180-age instead of the usual 220-age? Budding athletes probably have a higher max heart rate too. I understand where you are going with this. For me I am blessed with all year outdoors so you won't find me on a trainer. 80% of the rides I do with my heart rate at 132bpm, except the one today :rolleyes:

    Man... It was beautiful. I flew past the Los Alcazares cycling club peloton. They looked very pretty in their matching riding jerseys. Further down the route there was a DF rider who was giving it some welly but boom off I went and didn't even bother to draft off him. :cool::cool::cool:

    Smashed my PBs. Good ride... Public holiday today so no cars on the road at sun rise. 6.45am Bliss!

    I will follow the recommendations as I know before that it's all too easy to overtrain.
    If you look at Lance Armstrong's average speed it's something like 25.7mph which is a whole lot more better than today's ride so there is improvement. But sure, I realise that it should be lower for me as no EPO and I am not training at altitude. Today's ride was almost 20mph, but stopped at three junctions at the red lights.

    I like variety too. Last night for the first time I put lights on a cyclocross bike that has aero bars and went for a spin on the caminos at 23:30 ... It's so hot during the day and much cooler during the evening so that was good just to unwind.

    Last edited: Jun 9, 2016
  10. LarryOz

    LarryOz Zen MBB Master

    Slim, I was in the same predicament.
    The other way you can "gauge" that you are in this "aerobic" range is if you can breathe easily through you nose and talk normally.
    I'm 56, and 180-56=124. That is really low, but the fitter you are the higher the number.
    (Same thing with the "magic" maximum heart-rate. 220-age. Some even use 210-age. For me that would be 220-56 = 164. That is the maximum that I am supposed to hit for 1 second after total all out effort, but I can and have ridden at 165bmp for 4+ hours before. I regularly go into mid 180's and can probably still hit 200 if I really went after it.)
    I digrees:
    Any, through experimentation with this breathing/talking technique I am pretty comfortable now at 135bmp as my aerobic level. I can even still breathe through my nose and talk into the low 140's, but I notice it is harder, so for me - I shoot for 132bmp and that gives me plenty of room. (Hence Ratz's +10 rule)

    Sam, the Threshold that I was probably referring to early was the "Functional Threshold Power" - FTP - This is the max average power a person can make for an all out 1 hour Time Trial effort. All power training is pretty much based on this number. Your Threshold heart rate is what you average HR will be during that 1 hour. It is also closely related to another term called Latcate Threshold (LT), and this has to do with the level of lactate in your blood at this level of exertion. You can train yourself to run at just below this LT for a very long time but is very uncomfortable. You are in that area that each minute you are saying to yourself: "Man, I just don't know if I can hold this for another minute, but you do - and you just keep doing it. You can get in a zone and just keep doing it. Once you tip over your LT though, you can't hold it for very long after that compared. All these figures usually move up (get larger) as you get more powerful and fitter.
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  11. ratz

    ratz Wielder of the Rubber Mallet

    Weight doesn't have so much to do with it as you'd think; I'd probably recommend someone over weight lower it a bit more. 220-age is definitely not an aerobic formula. For me that would be 220-47 = 173 and my max measured HR is about 168. I think you are thinking of the 0.8 * (220 - age) formula. For me that yeilds 138.5 where the MAF formula gives me 133. That's only a 5.5 bpm difference but that makes a difference and it makes for a good safety zone.

    The nice part about aerobic fitness is that it's reasonably easy to test; IF you truly want to test it and you don't cheat. A simple Aerobic assessment can be done with one of these techniques.

    Ok Test:
    Go outdoors and ride for at least 3.5 hours. Limit yourself to (180-age) and try and stay in the 5 bpm range below that threshold. Record you heart rate data. This means if you get to a hill you have to slow down (this is a test, not a race, set aside ego/pride). Review your HR data and your rolling average speed. If you HR remains level versus the rolling average speed data then you are aerobically fit. The problem with this approach is that terrain, weather and heat affect your HR data. You must add in a subjective measure on top of the data. That requirement makes speed much less meaningful. Did you feel like talking the entire time? At the end of the ride do you feel like going out and doing stuff? Or do you want to rest and eat food like crazy? Lazy and hungry you aren't aerobically fit and you depleted sugar stores in the effort. The data file can be analyzed to make some determinations; but notes about perceived effort should be included; as well as a weather report.

    Better test:
    Put the bike on a power trainer; set the ERG program to hold your power fixed at 70% of FTP and ride for 2 hours. Get a fan to keep yourself cool and drink water. IF you can maintain an 85-95 rpm cadence, riding in a low inertia gear (sub 18mph virtual speed) and your HR remains steady for the entire 2 hours; you are aerobically fit. IF you decouple and your heart rate creeps up over 180-age and you then have to slow you cadence or lower the power setting to lower your HR back into the target range; then you are not aerobically fit (outdoors you would get slower and slower). This will be almost everyone whose not been aerobically training but instead been riding in the grey zone mostly.

    Blind Faith;
    If all you have is an HR meter; you have to trust that it works. You can go out at the beginning and ride for 1 hr on a closed loop preferably flat as possible. Ride right at 180-age as much as possible. Record your distance. Embark on the prescribed training for 2-3 weeks. Repeat the test (try and match weather and temperature as much as you can, especially wind). You should find you went father in the 1 hr for the same exact effort after the 2-3 weeks of aerobic training. At that point the benefit becomes obvious and the training addiction begins :)

    Now these are simplifications above. The approach is built into the front end of the training in this program. TrainerRoad has the perfect workouts in the base phase to test all of this and then allow people to rebuild themselves with a better form of fitness. That is why I'm basing it on TR. We can't be over your shoulder encouraging you to hit the target with consistency; but the TR software can and we can control the variables with much greater precision. That's going to be the neat part about guiding people through learning to do this type of training. If you don't have an ERG trainer yet; but have a power meter it will still be possible to test and teach people. If right now all you have is HR meter; then their is an element of blind faith here; you can go out and do the work at the prescribed level but testing is harder; and you have to be hyper diligent and not lie to yourself.

    The challenge here it to get those that want to participate on to the best gear they can justify and let the programs do the work, those that can't get the gear can be guided but the subjectively is going to greatly reduced the results even if we have the ride data to study. Best results come from a structured approach; that almost a proven fact, and mostly accepted.

    Our sample group was interesting: I was out of shape after 3 months off from moving the home all that goes with it. I got destroyed trying to do this; riding some of the early phases a 60rpm to stay in range, very humbling. We had two riders who had great power numbers and looked in peak form. Both came out of that phase going; dam that's way way harder than expected; both were basically aerobically compromised; they had excellent anaerobic engines but no aerobic base capacity. Last rider has a creepy high heart rate and was aerobically fit until the 2 hour make then she'd blow up dramatically. You wouldn't call any of the group slow; but they were working harder than they need to at speed, or they were not able to sustain the output.

    In the end, this base repair and building targets all riders of all types and everyone can benefit from it to make the riding more enjoyable and add a structured exercise component to the bike experience. The base assumption here is that someone wants to be fitter and ride farther. If you are already get the max enjoyment from your riding and you don't enjoy exercise of this rigid nature, then this isn't an endeavor for you. If you have perfect weather the majority of the time; and you are having a blast riding day in and day; there may not be much to get gained here.

    But if you have time on your hands even a Blind Faith test won't cost you much; just time. If you do it and don't cheat you might suddenly be saving for that indoor trainer for you offseason and rainy days; the results are their own reward; and success is infectious.

    Should be noted I pretty much scrapped my entire season from a speedy sprint standpoint; only doing long slow and social with the plan to loose weight and rebuild aerobic to something big. Long game here; I'm eyeballing next summer as the first of many much stronger summers that hopefully then can be sustained year over year over year. I have a personal target in mind; and in studying all this, testing it; and making plans I had to accept there were zero short cuts to get there. Well actually there are but in my mind they are not sustainable for more than 2-3 years; I plan to be riding for at least another 25 years so what's one season of reseting the system.
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2016
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  12. ratz

    ratz Wielder of the Rubber Mallet

    Ah yes the beloved Promise mode training; you know you are in this place when you start making deals with yourself. like: I'll just hold this pace until that tree, and then I can relax; then you keep moving the tree you want to make because you didn't die yet. I'll ride hard until that rest stop then I can have a snack..... Maria is well documented as being the ultimate at suffering and playing this game when everyone else thinks she's just cruzing along she's just figuring out how to get to the next marker. If you ever get a chance to ask her about RAAM ask her how much scenery she actually saw; I suspect the answer will be "very little".

    The later stages of the indoor training gets like this too; you get a 5 interval workout; you go into interval 1; ok this isn't too bad, you hit interval 2 and you go oh crap there's no way I can finish this workout; you get done with interval 2 and your like ok maybe one more; half way through #3 you are thinking I'm done, but you make it, then it's ok only 2 more; I can do this, ouch ouch ouch; ah 1 left, I have you now!... done; phew that was awesome and terrible at the same time. But that comes in the later phase 12-16 weeks into a program.

    This is "start slow training" we are discussing and that focus will be at the base of a program that is designed to push the LT up higher without having to suffer in a way that would then knock you off the bike for 2-3 days. We want easy repeatable, stackable training that keeps you on the bike as much as you want to be all the while getting better.

    It should be noted we ain't perfect at this we want to share what we have learned, save other people the dead ends, see what's repeatable, ; let others report back; learn, evolve and get better. That's a core assumption here. Frankly it's sometimes too hard to find all this info, and you are also left wondering if it's applicable to a recumbent bike with it's more efficient use of power on the flat; and it's higher demands for power going up hill due to the added weight. It appears, as expected, the training just works; but the workouts can probably be combined differently to get maximal results for riders on the platform. The last part is what I'm interested in; what is our power profile for rides of Type X and what does that imply for the structure of the training; what does the training plan for a rolling road race look like for a recumbent; it's going to be different than for a road bike; road bikers don't blast down the lead-in hill at 45 mph they tap out at 33 ish. Then they don't slow down to sub 19mph on the following crest. But I digress; looking at that is months away and mounds of data in the future.
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2016
    Bruce B likes this.
  13. pedlpadl

    pedlpadl Well-Known Member

    I'm interested in joining, but not until October or November. I hope to be getting a KICKR around then. This sounds like a great incentive to work out more over the winter, and to stay out of rush hour traffic on weekdays the rest of the year.
  14. ratz

    ratz Wielder of the Rubber Mallet

    These are the lists I'm maintaining. Just pick a slot. Those in the souther hemisphere can help be grok when you off seasons begin. ((Yes I know Aussie's don't need no stinking off season o_O))

    Group A - Start now/soon have a Trainer

    Group B - Start now/soon don't have a Trainer, plan to get by indoor season

    Group C - Start End of September; have a Trainer

    Group D - Start End of September; plan to get a Trainer

    Group E - Start January; plan to get a Trainer

    Group F - Start January; have a Trainer

    Remember that trainer road does support the non-erg trainers like the Kurt Kinetic; you just need a speed sensor and a support trainer with a known power curve. Yes it's more challenging but it's less expensive for the equipment.
  15. Dave Arnold

    Dave Arnold Active Member


    Count me in. I may be in Group A, but I plan on continuing to do outdoor rides during the week and on the weekends.
  16. ratz

    ratz Wielder of the Rubber Mallet

    continuing to ride outside should not pose any problem; especially during the shake down phase. You just record the ride and we load that TSS into your data set.
  17. super slim

    super slim Zen MBB Master

    Larry, I think I would need the trike attachment to ride that slow, unless going down a slight incline!!!

    I can talk OK , breathing through my mouth, up to 125-130 bpm, which is my target bpm on flats, during 2-6 week bike tours.
    150-155 bpm is my target during 1 day community 160 km+ bike races, + hill climbs on 2-6 week bike tours.
    If I go over 165 bpm on a hill climb, then it takes me 10+ km before I have recovered!

    I will try tomorrow (Sat), the 115 bpm on the 30 km beach bike track, when the forecast is only 10% chance of rain, instead of 80% rain all this week.
    LarryOz likes this.
  18. pedlpadl

    pedlpadl Well-Known Member

    I suppose I'm a group D, may change to group E depending on bike budget, desire to switch indoors with a couple of good outdoor months still available, etc.
  19. super slim

    super slim Zen MBB Master

    What is the sex cream recommended to create a good contact for the heart rate chest strap, as i tried to ride at 115 bpm today, at 12 to 14 kph (7 to 9 mph), and I only had a heart rate for 1/2 of the ride, even after three saliva re coatings of the strap contacts!
  20. It's a clear gel, water-based, lubricating jelly, personal lubricant. It should wash off with water. You can buy unbranded or branded products. A large tube is cheap and will last forever. You can ask for it at your local pharmacy.

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