whats coming up in the new Vendetta

John Tolhurst

Zen MBB Master
We've seen some great successes on the Vendetta which have thoroughly vindicated all the design premises of going to front wheel drive for recumbent bikes. Behind the scenes there are always manufacturing challenges such as how to obtain the right materials and what is the best way to design and construct the details. Some of those challenges have been addressed and in a couple of weeks I will be in Taiwan to examine the parts as they come of tube bending machines, hydroform shaping presses and CNC machining tools.

Generally the challenge is how to better fabricate what we know we need and a key part of that is the mainframe. A quick look at the Vendetta shows that there is a downtube, low tube and seat tube, into which the seat shape is recessed. To achieve this requires a number of steps: tube sourcing, tube machining, jigging, welding, sending out again to have the seat shape cut by CNC, welding in the seat mounting surface, adding gussets, etc. So you can see its a bit tedious. We needed a better way to realise the whole mainframe. We decided to explore using hydroforming. Hydroforming is a method where the negative mold is made in a large 'sandwich' press. A donor tube is prepared by drawing (swaging) to manage wall thicknesses, then bending the tube into the approximate shape. The donor tube is then placed into the sandwich mold, the mold is closed, then each end is plugged and high pressure liquid is inserted, stretching the tube outwards until it comes into contact with the mold. When released, the tube now has the shape of the mold.

Hydroforming is used for many of the complex shapes in your motorcar, and is used for bicycle downtubes, when those downtubes have interesting, non-linear forms. Many might not know be familiar with hydroforming, but if you are even a casual observer of bicycle designs and I show you a hydroform tube it will be instantly familiar. I visited one of the largest hydroforming factories in Taiwan earlier this year and in principle we concluded it was possible to use this technology to create the Vendetta, but there were some issues to work through. HF tubes cannot turn sharp corners, there must be a minimum radius to any bends; and the total length of the tube was much longer than had been attempted by this factory before. Also, the total circumference of the tube cannot vary too much. But through many design interactions a tube was eventually defined that had the shape needed for the Vendetta, as well as requiring a donor tube that could be drawn successfully to give the right wall thicknesses.

We will evaluate in the coming weeks, and hope to be able to progress with (what appears will be) the world's first hydroform tube on a recumbent bicycle. The new design will transform the image of the Vendetta, and lend it and the whole notion of riding recumbents a new level of credibility within the bicycle world. Just one step on that journey, but I hope history will show it to be pivotal.
 

Eric Winn

Zen MBB Master
Hi John,
So my Vendetta order


Hi John,

So my Vendetta order will be one of these hydroformed frames? Sounds great. I had been wondering if you had ever considered this technique.

-Eric
 

unc99

Active Member
thanks for sharing John. is

thanks for sharing John. is this mostly to improve aesthetics, the manufacturing process, or the performance of the bike? Or perhaps some combination of the three?
 

Jim Gerwing

Well-Known Member
Anticipation

Having ordered a Vendetta frame in September, knowing that winter is approaching and refusing to get back on my DF (which is going to be the donor bike for my next venture), I am anticipating a record breaking combination. With a modicum of athleticism, a fortuitous landscape, and an investment of resources in what promises to be the brainchild (3.0) of an innovator, I will be in a place, sometime next year to produce a new personal best. So: bring it on John.
 

John Tolhurst

Zen MBB Master
Yes, all presently pending

Yes, all presently pending orders will be filled with this new frame.

I'm reticent to trumpet over something not yet realised, but felt I needed to commence a discussion about the coming new V. It will be easier to make, which means the lead times should be easier to manage and that would be very helpful. It will probably look better, and if we are careful we won't lose any performance and might gain a modicum.
 

ak-tux

Zen MBB Master
Great work John.

Great work John. Congratulations on the new Hydro formed frame building process. Probably you might even shave off a few more grams from the final frame. Hope the knowledge you pick-up from the HF process will trickle down to the Silvio.
 

MrSteve

Zen MBB Master
Fewer Welds

-and lower labour costs sounds like a plan!

You'll be sure to post a photograph of the running prototype, with the hydroformed main-tube frame, won't you?
Please?

Thank you!
 

Eric Winn

Zen MBB Master
The banana panniers in the

The banana panniers in the radicaldesign link below look like some I've seen on some Vendetta photos.

https://www.radicaldesign.nl/en/products/recumbent-bags/side-panniers

John, any thoughts for the new frame being able to easily handle bags like these? On the off chance we want to haul some stuff whilst we are hauling you know what on the V?

See: http://cycles-bentoline.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Gabriel-en-Vendetta-BAC2011-Crx-de-ferCopie.jpg

I cropped this from the above link. Looks like the bag straps are just looped over the seat. Any ideas for a more elegant and secure fitment that avoids rear wheel and brake interference?

image(4).jpg width: 672px; height: 559px;


-Eric
 

John Tolhurst

Zen MBB Master
I have to paint before I get

I have to paint before I get orders, if I have more than one colour someone always gets disappointed when their favourite colour gets out of stock.

If someone pays before the frames are ordered I might entertain asking our factory to complicate the frame painting subcontract and risk puttng the wrong colour in the wrong box.

The colour I chose for visibility reasons, it is a beautiful golden yellow with a metalic finish.
 

Eric Winn

Zen MBB Master
Based on fthills build photos

Based on fthills build photos I really, really like the Vendetta colour. I think it is a great colour but dang it I'm getting frustrated looking at pictures instead of the actual dream machine itself (hint, hint). How close to shipping the new ones?

Also what compressionless housing and disk brakes will work well with SRAM Rival brifters? Just in case :)

-Eric
 

Andrew 1973

Zen MBB Master
I love the colour

Personally, I think the colour picked for the Vendetta is gorgeous, provides increased visibility and also serves well for brand recognition, although I don't think the Vendetta would be mistaken for any other bike by those who know their recumbents.

I guess it would be possible to have the frame repainted. This is especially simple as it comes largely disassembled. My only concerns would be (1) potential voiding the warrenty and (2) excess paint build-up might affect assembly tolerances. I have resprayed frames and it is a lot of work to do properly. Conversely, it is very expensive to have it done well. Take a look at the work of Joe Bell and Hill Clarke (Airglow). It's expensive for a reason.

Given the choice though, I'd stick with the stock colour.
 

MrSteve

Zen MBB Master
It's a Beautiful Thing

I'll see one in person, in sunlight, someday.

My personal fave. shade is blue, but this yellow, on this bike, is gorgeous.

What other colour would look good on this speed-machine, I asked myself?
Red?
Everyone picks red; it's been done.
Everything's been done!

Alright, here's why I posted this rambling little note....
I've always been fond of the look of highly-polished alloy, finished with a corrosion-resistant clear lacquer finish,
just like the big Japanese motorcycle companies did with their engine cases, valve covers and tripletrees.

;)

On the other hand, given the choice, the stock yellow is awfully nice!

-Steve
 

Charles.Plager

Recumbent Quant
I personally like the yellow

I personally like the yellow color on the Vendetta, but I do think it is holding the Vendetta back somewhat.

I mean everybody knows red is faster.

:)
 

leakyduck

Member
Cruzbike colors

Dear John,
This is why I wrote and asked you for decals. A lot simpler to supply decals and then we can all chose our favorite color.
 

Charles.Plager

Recumbent Quant
Hi John,
More seriously than


Hi John,

More seriously than my previous post (not that red isn't fast):

I do understand your point about having a lot of stock with the wrong color. Maybe it would make sense to make both yellow Vendettas and nude Vendettas*. You could even offer to get them painted a custom color before they are assembled (for the right price, of course).

Cheers,
Charles

* As long as people don't look at the pictures either at work or when young children are around... :D
 
If I were buying a Vendetta

If I were buying a Vendetta today, I would pick yellow even if I had the choice.

Fast-forward to when this bike is more common and there are plenty of yellow Vendettas at the rides I'm going to....maybe then I would choose another color. Probably red since it's the fastest! :)
 
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