Vendetta vs. Bacchetta – Rick Youngblood’s Experience
January 17, 2017/ Lucia Parker
I just want to know what his experience switching from Bacchetta to Cruzbike is and what his honest evaluation is and how much difference the outcome makes.
We recently fielded this question from a future Cruzbike owner. He’s not alone in seeking real-rider perspective on the Bacchetta vs. Vendetta question, especially as it relates to the ability climb fast on a recumbent bike. So we put him in touch with Rick Youngblood who made the switch from Bacchetta Corsa to Cruzbike Vendetta. Thousands of miles later, here’s what Rick generously shared:
Okay. My experience is 11,582 miles on my Vendetta 2.0 and prior to that 3,736 miles on a Silvio 2.1. I owned a Bacchetta Corsa, Rans Xstream, MetaBike, to name a few. The Silvio and Vendetta outperformed them all, especially when it came to climbing.
The Silvio climbs much more efficiently than the Bacchetta in my opinion by producing more power to the drive wheel because of the stiffness of the drive system. The Vendetta does an even better job climbing than the Silvio, due to it being lighter and stiffer than the Silvio.
The Vendetta sits closer to the ground than a Bacchetta which in my option helps with starts to better eliminate stalls and fall overs, especially when climbing.
I had no problem learning to ride the uniquenouse of Cruzbike’s MBB/FWD. I was up and running with less than 100 miles and felt quite at home. I waited until I had a couple of hundred miles under my belt before starting to practice and conquering hills. However it takes a little patience and time to adapt to it, but it will be well worth the efforts applied.
I don’t consider the Bacchetta to be in the same performance class as the Vendetta.
Since owning the Vendetta my riding area increased substantially by incorporating more hills and mountain areas in my rides. I live in northern California with lots of mountainous riding available. I need a good climbing recumbent bike and I believe the Vendetta to be best climbing recumbent available. There is absolutely no other recumbent I would want to ride other than the Vendetta.
There are tons and tons of stories on the Cruzbike forum. And hey, just in case if you are wondering I do not work for Cruzbike and am not affiliated with them. They are a great company with a superb unmatched product. You may connect with me through email any time.
Best,
Rick Youngblood
You can connect with Rick on the Cruzbike Forum @Rick Youngblood. Thanks, Rick, for sharing your experience so generously.
@David DerMott. Thanks for your questions. I appreciate your stories about chasing down pelatons. That’s a fun hobby for some fast, aero recumbent riders.
We find that recumbent butt (which may be what you have experienced on your F40) comes from putting a lot of effort in while also putting a lot of pressure on your glutes. The more you weigh and the more upright you are, the more likely you are to experience it. For instance, I don’t get it on the S40, but Jim does and he outweighs me be about 40 pounds. I’m thinking that the V20c would be a much better choice for you as you like to go fast and recumbent butt is almost unheard on it because you are mostly on your back and the glutes don’t get mashed under pressure.
Our bikes really do climb better than any other recumbents because of the efficient drive train and ability to add upper body and core input when needing extra power.
As far as fairing go….they are generally not great on a Cruzbike. Because of our geometry, the front end (which is hinged from the main frame) is easily moved by side winds and can make the bike hard to control. I have used front and rear disc wheels and though I can control the bike, a brisk side wind requires a lot of concentration to keep the bike going straight. Still, some have done it. I just don’t think it’s safe and we don’t recommend. We do like a tail box and other aero aids. If you have other questions, please email me at maria@cruzbike.com. Thanks!
I currently have a fully faired Lightning F40 that is nearly 30 years old. I say have, rather than ride as I developed mystery tailbone pain and “hot feet” syndrome. My tailbone issue can’t be diagnosed, due to stainless steel hardware making MRI imaging impossible. The Race Across America, 4 MAN team record it set in 1989 was about 1.5 days faster than your unfared, 5 days, 1 hour, 7 minutes. In the 1970s I was a really good hill climber, won a few races in the Pacific NW on my upright bike.
My F40, she’s a heavy girl. On flat ground, downhill, turning a 56 tooth chainring, was very fast. I loved to hunt down local racing clubs in full echelon drafting mode. I’d roll up behind ‘em, ring my little bell, yell “On your left” go by and slow down a bit so they’d crank it up, then hammer down watching their tongues hang out. I was often accused of having a motor in “that thing.” At one point I pondered installing a hamster wheel and small cage on the back rack, so I could unzip the fairing and say, “Naw, just this”. But on steep, Western PA hills, I was easily half-assed, er, half fast as compared to my old upright.
Questions. Most importantly, if I purchased a Cruzbike, and did a century to see if it was easier on my butt, could I exchange it for a V20c?
Next. Has anyone put a fairing on one? I envision re-purposing the F40 fairing nose and spandex cover. The fairing becomes an oven above 80 degrees, popping open the headlight cover gets me up to 85. Above that, unzip and remove the spandex cover. The nose bowl alone still is 20% faster than a stock P-38.
My 70th birthday comes around in 2025. I would love to be able to ride fast again. Nothing thrills like passing cars going downhill, spinning a 56-11 ring as fast as you can. Yes, above 60 mph downhill on a SWB recumbent is scary. Especially when a Corolla rolls alongside, full of camera phones smiling and waving, not knowing the wind blast around their front end is pushing me off the road!
@John,
That is correct.
The V20 fork is 132.5 spacing, so basically a 130mm or 135mm drive wheel will fit. The rear is a standard 100mm spacing.
Robert
Does the Vendetta use the same width wheels as upright road bikes (100mm front, 130mm rear) only in reverse position?
Hello Rick I am French and I practice for a few months the recumbent bike. I own a Zockra of French manufacture but I have long looked at the vendetta of Cruzbike because it is a direct traction and I think it is more suited to the mountain and the passes that I like! And quieter too? Can you tell me more about his qualities of climber and tell me your different plates and teeth back? How does it behave in downhill and in tight corners? Can the hands of the handlebars be released after a certain time? Thank you for your answers and good hikes to you! Sportingly
Hello Strauss, gearing is key to climbing, and is individual. I’m 60 years young, and my training is off and on. When I’m very fit I find I don’t require the lowest gears. But when I’m at the bottom of my fitness I do. Recently the I re-built my Vendetta 2.0. You can read about the gearing I chose here: http://cruzbike.com/forum/threads/olyellow-get-a-new-facelift-after-11-6k-miles.11450/
There is so much more available in gearing chooses theses. You take someone like me that needs lower gearing for climbing vs someone like Jason Perez. Jason is a prime athlete and does not require the low gears I do to climb the same hills. You can read all about him on these pages.
What I love most about climbing is, first the feeling “wow I just climbed that hill” it feels good, second is getting to rip a fast downhill descent, which usually has corners, it’s simply exhilarating. For me the bike handles like a Porsche, it’s solid and tight. So far my fastest descent is 49 mph’s, but looking for that elusive 50 mph, in my case it’s the road and not my fear that’s the restraint.
Hi Christophe,
How do you like the Zockra ? It such a shame they stopped making them ! Such a beautiful bike !
If you ever want to sell 😉
Hi,
I find your comments very interesting because I have been involved with recumbent design for many years and have heard many anecdotal claims regarding the climbing prowess of varying designs. Verifying your experience in some non-subjective way would be nice. I am happy that you mentioned the drive-train as a possabile source of mechanical losses. The extra long chain on most recumbents has to have some inherent losses particularly when run over inder wheels or through plastic tubing. Added to the higher loads involved in climbing, I think that a good argument can be made for the Cruz design. Lightning also makes claims of superior climbing based on structural rigidity, riding position, and weight. This sounds very much like your experience. Have you owned a P-38?
I own a P 38. I have concluded that climbing on any bent pretty much means one thing. Leave early. My first entry was the bikeE. Then a Burley SWB then ti Bacchetta aero, a Catrike 700, Catrike Musashi then a carbon Aero 2.0. I found the Bacchtta could really gobble up pavement on flats and ridiculously fast on descents. Climbing? See opening statement. As I age my back and neck could no longer tolerate extreme reclined position. The P38 has offered extreme comfort, is easy to boost up to my roof rack and as to climbing, as good as anything I’ve ridden. Sitting more upright is a good deal more comfortable and provides some extra power against the crank arms. I love this little bike.
I’ve never owned a P38. But know about and have friends that own or have owned them. My understanding is yes indeed they are very good climbers and that they have a very stiff front end. I believe we have a few Cruzbike forum members that owned or own P38’s. You mentioned about the extra long chain on rear drive recumbents loosing mechanical efficiency, I too agree, however there are those that disagree. It seems to be a controversial subject. I’ve never been fond of the long chain with its pulley idlers, etc.
Very nice review. Can you please comment on the stability of the ride? Is it twitchy at high speeds? Stable? Sounds like once you got used to it, it becomes natural and second nature.
Thanks,
Mark
I find it extremely stable at low or high speeds. Once you get past the learning curve there should be zero issues.
A little story from my experience. My first Cruzbike bike was the Silvio in which I purchased to supplement my Metabike. I loved my Metabike, good climber and very stable at all speeds. My past recumbent experience taught me when you acquire a new recumbent, ride it and ride it only until you’ve acclimated to its quirks, until those quirks become natural. So I rode only the Silvio for a thousand miles. At this point I was completely acclimated to the Silvio ‘s MBB, it had become natural and comfortable. So…one day I loaded my Metabike up on the bike rack and headed out to the River Trail to ride an old friend. Wow, was I in shock, the Metabike had become extremely twitchy and was unstable. Just to give you an idea just how stable and non-twitchy the Metabike once was. The very day after I built up the metabike, my first ride was a mountainous century.
I owned a P-38 for 4 years prior to purchasing a Silvio 2.0 in 2013.
Prior to that I had a Burley Django, Rans Stratus XP and a Rans Screamer tandem.
The P-38 was a comfortable and fast bike but not as good a climber as the Cruzbike.
The Cruzbike is just overall a more efficient design.
No bike is perfect and the CB has it’s own limitations – encounter some gravel on a steep climb and you will find one unavoidable problem with the front wheel drive.
But, as an overall fast and fun recumbent to ride the Cruzbike can’t be beat.
I have sold all my other recumbents and now own 3 Cruzbikes.
Rick- I have been considering a change to a Cruzbike from high racer bikes also.
One of my reservations is the seat angle. Too much recline bothers my neck, not enough and recumbut sets in.
We’re you using a very reclined seat on your Bacchetta, and has this been any problem for you?
Thanks
Rod
Hello Rod, I tried different seats with different seat angles on the Corsa which gave me experience with what I like in a seat. To me an important part of the seat is the neckrest. My current setup on my Vendetta is roughly 23 degree recline, with a properly adjusted neckrest. You can read more about my seat mod here on the CF forum: http://cruzbike.com/forum/threads/seat-mod.8978/
I’m considering selling my Corsa and buying the Vendetta. What package did you buy? Will the $2750 frame set still be faster than my Corsa or do I need to by the race package? Thanks in advance.
I’ll try answering this one… The race package is a very nice SRAM Rival 22 groupset and light 700c wheelset. But the secret-sauce for going fast is in the frameset. So there are many different groupsets and 700c wheel choices that will take you just as fast if you prefer (or already have) something else.
Interesting comments. I am looking at recumbent. I bought catrike 700. And I know it’s a great trike but I am not happy. Looking at cruzbike and baccetta. Which do you fell better with in the turns? I am novice but want to start training again after a few surgeries. What is the best overall racing recumbent in your opinion.. Thanks Michael.
Hi Michael, we think the Cruzbike Vendetta V20 is the fastest road bike in the world. In fact we guarantee that whatever road bike you ride now, you’ll be faster on a V20. Check it out on our website at the link above and let us know if you have any questions!
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